Zooier Than Thou Transcripts S01E12

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<opening>
Greetings fellow zoos and welcome to a triumphant episode of Zooier Than Thou !
I'm a cat who loves you, love cat.
And I'm Toggle one big grumpy rat.
I'm sure you are
and we'll be your hosts for this episode

Wow episode 12 we're almost at the end of the first season !
It's almost hard to believe it's been a year and this time last year we hadn't even met

No indeed, I'd have never met a great portion of

the zoo crew without this podcast 
it's been a wonderful zoo year but more
about that next episode 

yes today let's do some emails
yes indeed !

first up, here's our friendly neighborhood zoo
sexual, a regular contributor commenting
on episode 11.

Our friend writes in short :
"I was kind of expecting to cry during
this episode but instead you guys had me
laughing so hard that my vision went
fuzzy for several minutes"

Oh... I'm super glad to hear that we were recording
episode 11 right as Fausty passed but I
didn't have the energy of that
episode taken down by the tragedy we
were all dealing with 
most of the episode was recorded just before he died
so thankfully it wasn't hard to keep
things in a positive perspective


Speaking of, here is an email about
episode 12 from kisses for bitches

kisses writes: "love this episode
especially with so many of you I've
interacted with on Twitter, so sincerely
sorry about Fausty and I've had simple
DMS with him about ztt, uniquely
dangerous and anti zoos.

I would have personally liked to meet him either in
voice or in person he was active online
around the same time I was in the 90s
and early 2000s 

I'm surprised we never 
crossed paths back then or maybe we did
and I just didn't know it or don't
remember 

we're almost exactly a year
apart in age both in March 

Anyhow I'm so
pleased that the zoo cast seems alive
and well with the most recent episode.

You rock loved cat ! great job to you all
and my opinion is so important to us all
that zoott continues even though Doug is
no longer with us 

I think we can definitely all agree on that.
The importance of this podcast to each
of us on the team is definitely been
reflected in the feedback that we've
gotten from the majority of the people
who have sent us feedback. It's pretty
amazing, flattering, humbling, that we are
able to do anything that has this kind
of an impact in the lives of other
people and especially others zoos out there
in the world.

Definitely and you know
actually, there was a point where you
know, Fausty were not sure that we
could continue and I will tell you that
the people who are working on Zoot right
now were ready and willing to continue
the podcast because they felt it was so
important. So you do not have to worry
about our faltering of dedication: we
understand the importance of this
podcast and, to be honest, it gives me
such a great amount of fulfillment that
I don't think I could stop even if I
wanted to...


Hmm-hmm and with with Fausty's passing at least for me the fact
that he left us with this project has
been one of the major factors that has
allowed me to cope with his passing
because I feel that as I'm putting my
energy into this, that energy is not
expressed as grief to nearly the extent
that it would have been otherwise I
don't know if you get that to Toggle I'm
guessing 


Yeah I do yeah you know it's
like I knew he wanted this to continue
after he was gone and I can feel the
energy when I [#help approach (4:00)] the
podcast like this is important, this is
something that he wanted to keep going
and by keeping it going, I know I'm
keeping him alive in a way 

(4:11)
- Absolutely. Already here's a short email from
speechless in Seattle who writes so is
it mail spelled M-A-I-L or mail spelled
M-A-l-E "hope I'm not clogging up your
inbox with random jokes. One of the many
endearing parts of your podcast which I
expected myself to grow tired of but
found that I'm not.  Brandon today (glad to
know that) a random tidbit my friends
mom's mailbag says mail male on it
- Oh no that's these mail-male bit has fans 
- We try to clog this podcast full of
terrible puns as much as possible
because we have a terrible sense of
humor
thanks for putting 

- And thanks for
enjoying the podcast. Ask your friends
mom where I can get a bag like that

Alright. So the next email is from Abe
rodent this rodent writes "dear Zoot I
first heard about your podcast and
Toggle' specifically last year, but I was
too scared to make contact so I just
lurked. Eventually I summon enough
courage to reach out to the ratty
co-host with the first words "please
don't block me !". I then explained that I
was a zoo sexual and how I felt about
animal welfare in general. He pointed me
to this podcast and in about four days I
listened to every single episode to date.

It was the first time I had ever seen
zoos portrayed positively which is
something I wish that I had seen when I
first started looking for other zoos and
inevitably found Beastforum mm-hmm I
didn't like the abuse that I saw and I
was scared I think that I might be like
them. In other words I don't remember
seeing positive and healthy interspecies
relationships like I had wanted. 

This podcast and the community around it has
changed that : it was refreshing to see
zoo sexuals representing themselves in a
positive way, combating bigotry and
stereotypes with accurate representation.

It even encouraged me to come out to a non zoo 
which went amazingly well 

In fact my only regret is that I never reached out when I first learned to the podcast 

Instead, the first day I spoke to
toggle was the last day that Fausty
was alive and it was a very emotional time for him and his loved ones.

I wish I could have said hi. 
However, now it is the future and I am reinvigorated to help support animals 
and those of us who love them more than most in any small way that I can. 

I am still scared however, I realized that we don't represent
ourselves others will
as you always say : "exposure is the solution"

Thank you for keeping the podcast alive. 
Uou guys do a great job and I hope this is a valuable
community resource for future zoos.

Sincerely,  Abe rodent"

- That's a beautiful email (yeah) that one
touches me deeply and especially what he
says here about wishing to have spoken
to Fausty, it just brings home that we
have to take the opportunities that we
have to mean the people that are
important in our lives and to always
take every opportunity to remind the
people that we already have in our lives
our friends and our families that we
love them that they matter to us that
that we cherish them and understand that
once they're gone they're gone and every
chance that we had to let them know
how important they were in our lives
will become with them. For Fausty, I'm
sure you remember Toggle, when I first
reached out to him, I had just read the
book and I the last thing that I saw was
a news article online saying that he had
been sent to prison and I thought that
that's where he was yeah until I heard
his voice on the podcast, and I can't
tell you the feeling of happiness
that gave me to know that I wouldn't
have to somehow find my way through you
know, trying to contact him anonymous in
prison, you know and I was just imagining
him rotting away there in jail, but it
it's a source of, well, I mean joy and
purpose and meaning in my life a lot of
which stemmed from Doug and from what he
represented to me before during and now
after having known him in person this
past year. So I think it's very
important that we continue to reach out
to the people in our lives and build
this community because the communities
was made [#help of the people who were](8:47) in it so
I would encourage Broden to continue
what he's doing.

Yeah and remember you know Fausty is
just one of many older zoos that have a
perspective that a lot of us that have
been here just for the last 20 years may
not have. So reach out to older zoos they
have a lot of good stuff to say.

Yeah reach out to a lot of zoos I mean
I've met a couple of dozen zoos
just over this past year, having gone the
entire previous bunch of my life never
having met another one and knowing other
zoos has been incredibly powerful just
to have other people around whom I can
let that guard down and not have to
worry either that they're going to
reject me or that they're going to not
necessarily object me but just kind of
not really want to know about that. I've
been incredibly lucky with friends and
family who are non zoos and their total
acceptance of me, but at the same time
there's just nothing like the
fellowship that I felt with others zoophiles.

(9:50)
You know this fellow Broden
reached out to me last month and was so
skittish and afraid at first like but as
he listened to our podcast it was clear
that a sense of pride in himself was
blooming and I am so glad that this
thing we do could be a part of
instilling that sense of self-confidence
and self-worth.

He has become a very good friend and I'm
glad we finally met even if the timing
was particularly depressing but I will
say you know hearing his positive
experience with the podcast while I was
dealing with the Fausty's passing was
actually very helpful for me in [#help coping](10:24)

So, rock on Broden, let's get the heavy
around as a friend love you bud.

And now, we have so many emails and we apologize if
we haven't gotten to yours yet. Some of
them were holding on for future episodes,
some of them we haven't had time to
reply to yet but rest assured we do read
each and every one.

Don't be afraid to
reach out as my Broden found out we're
not scary and we're not celebrities.
We're just normal zoos like you, just
doing something we're passionate about
and we love meeting new people.

(10:54)
Alright friends, let's get into the topic
at hand: last month, we set out to find [#help suit (10:57)]
perspectives from around the world and
we collected a lot of really interesting
interviews.

Yeah we met with zoos from
Peru, Germany, Sweden, Japan
and I think a couple of other places as
well.

We found ourselves with a lot of
interviews, way more than we have time to
air on this single episode. 

Now rest assured we plan to release these
interviews over time, but after our
latest interview which lasted two hours
we felt it would be beneficial to focus
our time in one place and give them time
to shine...

11:26
While we're not meant to be or
capable of being all things to all
people, we add Zooier Than Thou do hope to be
representative of the zoo community and
zoos are members of every other
demographic: sexual, gender, ethnic,
national, religious, economic, etc etc and
our inclusivity is born from the respect
for the validity and value of all living
feeling life forms. So when we consider
how we relate to each other as fellow
animals and as Homo sapiens, we are
informed by that attitude and we're
making the effort to live that
inclusivity. 

That means we want to make
an effort to help share the experiences
of zoos around the world of every
background. There's a lot we could be
doing to that end such as getting more
women or trans people involved at the
podcast, featuring more voices of color, etc 
e realize that we're limited on our
perspective, being a largely male
collection of zoos from the US, so we
reached out to find more diverse
perspectives. 

That said, we have decided
to focus on one this episode we found to
be particularly informative and one we
think you'll particularly enjoy. We
reached out to Michael Kiok and the
Zeta Verein in Germany and we were
thrilled when they agreed to meet with
us.

Yeah Michael is one of the first
people Doug put on the list of potential
interviews. As you hear later in the
episode, Michael Kiok is the most well known
zoophile in Germany and the organisation
he helped create successfully fought back
against the law which was touted as an
anti zoophile law by animal rights
groups. 

A lot of Zeta stated goals fall
in line with Zooier Than Thou, and we
hope you'll take some time to look at
their website zeta-verein.de

There's information
translated in english there, and they
recommend deepl.com(13:14) where translations
are not available that's deepl.com

One of the things that antizoos count
is that zoophilia is illegal as a matter
of moral justice, and that it's always
been and always will be znd that all
reasonable people will see it their way.

(13:27)
We all obviously know that's completely
false and Zeta Verein story is an
excellent example of that.

Recently, in fact, I've personally been going back
over the Danish Animal Ethics council's
2006 findings about Zoophilia, in which
they concluded that no anti bestiality
law was necessary, and it's been
refreshing to hear complete non zoos
speak reasonably and clearly about
zoophilia. The objections people often
raised about zoophilia and the
conclusion that it's actually not
harmful when the animals health and
well-being is taken into consideration.

The council followed up later on around
the time the law and Denmark was passed,
and found once again that their position
had not changed and that they did not
recommend that a law be passed, in spite
of mounting social pressure and
propaganda, that led politicians to
ignore their recommendation.

Several of the myths about animal sexuality are
dismissed in this original rulings, such
as animals only having sex for
reproduction, when it's clear as they
found they engage in sex primarily
because of the pleasure derived from the
activity. I found it quite refreshing!

It was one of the first published zoophile
media I've read when I decided to
explore and do my own research. And if
you haven't read it yet I have a copy
unofficially translated English that you
can have: I'll put a link in the
description of this podcast, which you
can see either at our website, or on
YouTube for those coming from other
places.

We're excited to share this
episode with you so I hope you'll stay
tuned for more Zooier Than Thou now right
after this.

(14:53)
This week's podcast is
sponsored by twelve krumpers krumping: a
new comedy by famed stud horse turn to
playwright wild card Willy. Now playing
off-broadway.
Tickets are on sale now.
And also by Germany: we do love our horses in
Deutschland. 
And finally by alliteration:
a sweet succulent succession of sounds
that sound sound in a series or, if you
prefer to infer, words with sequential
potential.

(15:36)
You've definitely seen me before we've hung out, we've gotten along.
You've told me your deepest secrets and
I've listened without judgment. Your dog
seems to like me so do your parents.
"I'm a decent guy", you tell people.
I'm also a zoophile, and I'm afraid to tell you
well the strength of our relationship
outweigh the taboo nature of my
sexuality. Nine times out of ten, my
experience is yes, but what if it's that
one time ? I don't want to lose people I
love. So I'm a zoophile you note. Yet I've
never even looked at your dog, funny, I'm
just normal. Ultimately, you decide your
reaction to the news. You could become
afraid that it'll fall back on you. You
could become disgusted and paint me into
a caricature of what I am, or you could
try to understand, open your mind and
your heart, and learn about me. 
What will you do?...

(16:57)
Welcome back, fellow zoos ! Today we have
some very special guests with us today: I
would like to introduce Michael Kiok
and his compatriot Komet, of the Zeta
society in Germany.

Welcome guys !
We're super thrilled to have you

Here this is actually you guys were on
the top list of people that are good for
an Fausty wanted to invite on the show
from the very day one,
so we're very excited to finally go get you guys on
the air 
- I'm honored to be here
- yes we are honored to have you
- Nice to meet you

So I'm curious I guess one of the best ways to start is
I think a lot of people in the US don't know you very well but, 
Michael, you are someone infamous as I think a reporter
said the most famous zoophile in Germany ?
or well known perhaps ? 

Well known yes well it
happens that during the [#help ...](18:05) with the
80's and I got the face in the news.

But your journey obviously doesn't start
at becoming the most recognizable zoophile in Germany.
I understand it starts
much earlier, on usenet sounds like 

Yes, indeed on Usenet, it was about 1994-95
when I had access to the Usenet and
found a newsgroup which was called
alt.sex.bestiality, perhaps you
know ?

I have heard of it yes it is popped
up in discussion a couple of times...

Yes, and which as far as I could know
was invented as a joke by some technician or computer man in some
university and after a short time there
were indeed [#help ...](19:08) zoos which were
gathering there and talking.

Yeah it said
something similar about an IRC channel
[#help found dog sex](19:19) also apparently was
a joke as well, jokes on them now.

Yeah, then we're for real baby!

Yes and it was
for me and for a lot of other persons
which were there, it was a big relief to
find other people who also zoos [#help ...](19:42)
after a short while there were
some people who were sympathetic
with each other and already
there began the distinctions between
beastialists, so poor sex, and zoophiles, where the emotional bonds to the
animals is in the foreground.
I remember a group which was called real.world.zoos which wanted to
define how many words you 
should talk a day with humans to 
remain a zoo, which was a little extra
mystical I think

(It's crazy ! Yes, that's actually crazy !)

I remember a thing that Fausty said : the real world zoos are in a 
kind of a nutshell: if
you aren't actively, you know, practicing
bestiality and in a like a monogamous
relationship with an animal, you weren't
really a zoo. Is that kind of a good
summary ?

I think so people love defining each other out of kind of groups

Yes.

A little later, there was

the topic arised ? arose ? in German

newsgroups

called de.talk.sex (called de.talk.sex ok, de for

Deutschland) yeah you know, exactly. And
afterwards it was called [#help big deep
talk _____] (21:28) which is the same, but
isn't it so well flooded by spambots
because the area was flooded with spam.

There were some very active persons who
were against Zoos especially one, called
[#help nothing blue it's Marty flower step](21:49), who
said he was a sexual scientists. But I
know that he was electrician.
But he was very good in scanning very long and
very complicated articles of which he
liked the headline and posted them to
proove that zoos are subhuman and
degenerated and against God and
so on. 
But if you I think no one read these long texts, but if you
read it, then you could prove to him that
the rest of the text had not much to do
with the headline...

Well seems very familiar even on Twitter !

There were some others and there were also a group of
zoos, and these flame wars and arguments
and discussions in the best
way most time it was frame was went
on for six years, and I think it was
very very good for us, because we
were nearly always more or less polite
and mindful when others began to be become
very emotional and
insulting and so on, and of course
it was not only these perhaps 40-50% who were discussing there over
the time, but there were thousands
of others who were reading it and
it did not discuss and I think this hate
was also beginning in Germany to get the
topic of zoophilia more to the
mainstream and you can... now
it's it's nearly twenty years ago,
but you can, you could watch development
that this topic, the topic of zoophilia,
and the relationship between
humans and animals which is very diverse
of course: we you can kill them but you
may not have sex with them, and if you
love them too much, and
suffer when it's dying
that's it but it was only an animal and so on...

(24:24)
There was some diverging currents in the zoo
society: one wants to put, to draw
any meds closer to humans, because they
have the same feelings and they are more
or less very similar 

Yeah there is other animal living beings that
experience things very similarly to it
that we do although we, the [#help Human 
_____
leaden I deny that] (24:50)

Yes, and others zoo also feel this but if they consent
to this: that animals and humans are very
close, they had to change the lifestyle
and the society yes then you could not
make factory farming and killing animals
for food and testing in laboratories and
all these things which are bad for
animals.

- You can't justify them

- Yeah you cannot, in yes indeed of course
you can close your eyes and says "well I
love my dog but I don't care about
what's about other animals", but it's not
very consequently.

(25:35)
Of course, people like to stay in the in their region, where they feel good and if they change themselves, or think in new ways, then these security is gone and to avoid...

- Yes, we can see that very much in the kind of interactions we have with antis every day. 
Let me ask you Kommet; were you around for the Usenet or newsgroups ?

- No I joined to zeta in 2012, so I came to realize that I'm a zoo around that time as well

- That lives lead us then to the next big
huge question on the mind, so, tell us
about the origins of the Zeta society
or the zeta "verein" ? How do you say ? 
- Verein, yes 
- Tell us a little bit about how that began 

- A lot of people, a lot of person, zoos
persons, ever and against, said well
we should make an organization, someone
should do it 
- "Someone..."
- Yes, of course. In the end, of course, nothing happened and even the
people who tried fails, because an old
man is talking about the youth of today,
a lot of people today, I think, they
haven't learned to force themselves to
something they want to do. So
nothing happened. On one of these
zeta-prides, there was really a reason to
make an organization, because the Green
Party, in Germany, had worked a draft of a
new animal protection law in which one
of the point was that sexual contacts
with animals and humans should be banned
and penalized [#help loading](27:35) with the fine.
There was really a need
to work against this. The background is
that the Germany had to follow this what
European Union makes as a law, [#help it's such called a law, 
a guiding line](27:57) : animals in laboratories had to get
a better life as far as possible, and
Germany did not react and did not change
the law. And it came so far that Germany
was short before coming before court of the
European Union and they had to do
something.
And so the Green Party made
this proposition. We said we'll have
to make an organization.
If you say I'm [#helpits mullah Joe average _____ ] (28:32) and I say your
law is not good for me and it was not [#help thought](28:28)
to the end and it's not 
protecting animals rights, then they say 
"thank you for your input".

If you have an
organization (you have a bit of lobbying power),
you have the chance to be heard.

(28:51)
We said together in a around and made
the outlines of what we want and the outlines of a
constitution of this verein. I said I would
organize this, because I know I can
organize it, I can organize, and so I did
(well done!), thanks, in a very sharp way
so I said we are now making this in
debt and I posted this over the forums which were there at this time.
We are now making this end in debt and you can
say what you went until to next week
at 7 o'clock.
And then there was a next step:
there were a lot of people who
were very eager and you need 7 persons
to found a verein (interesting) and when we
in the end met, which was in Berlin,
to fond the zeta verein. There were some
who didn't there and we had one too less:
we only had six who would but then we
got the signature of one who really
wasn't there: someone went to him and
take took his signature, and then we had
seven. 

- Ho, thank God !

- In the next two years, we
nearly didn't anything, because if you
first wanted to be registered. You
have to go to a court and your verein has
to be registered and then you are a legal
entity.

- So it takes all a while for the
courts to actually register it ?

- No, it took a while, it took a short while to
let them say : "no you are torturing
animals and we will not register you", and
then we made a lawsuit against this,
which went up to the highest court in
Berlin, and came down again and as I said
"no you are torturing animals" then we
said no it's not this way, try it again
with a changed Constitution which was
denied also, then we went up to this to

the highest court at Berlin, and back again then we
had one who knew just a lot about legal
things, but unfortunately he was also
people are, so someone who is
very enthusiastic for a while and [#help send
flips down to be very depressed.] (31:35)

- He seems bipolar
- Bipolar, ok bipolar

- Well and short before the next
round through these instances,
through the different levels of
[#help of the courts, was ready, he just
disappeared and was depressive] (31:51)


- Well so this was not a very easy journey,
this was wrought with obstacles

- No, it wasn't... we tried because 
this court, who register verein, are
regional and then we tried with 
another verein, at my place, which was
called [.Zeta but see I was a](32:20)
I slightly changed Constitution, but
obviously these courts had talked to
each other, and it was actually not the
only argument that was left of all these
things : they had said we do like torture
on animals and fucking animals to death
and all these things...

- Oh my god...

- Was that we don't follow the good [#help manners](32:44) which
is a reason not to register a verein.
But, yes, it's the law, but unfortunately, it's [#help true](32:54)
and so we stopped to try to get a register. 
And in the end, we got
the highest court in Berlin, called [#help "camagreed"](33:11) made a press release
that we these Verein of zoophiles were not allowed to be registered.
Then the media [#help exploded/exposed].
I don't why, but and it exploded to worldwide until to Vietnam !

'Cause they couldn't read it but 

- I bet it's the sentiment travels people

understand what it's about 


yes well and then, we had a lot of people who are
interested in us and a lot of people who who wanted to
[#help tar and feather us](33:50) 
Well all the [#help ologies](33:53) possible, but we had the media, in 2012,
at the beginning, so more or less, then the
new law was as a proposition from
the cdu/csu which is Conservative Party
and the FTP, which is liberal for [#help the ___ ones](34:20).
[#help This party and... they made a proposition, and the proposition was the Green Party was still I
was also still pending](34:31)
And then we got active.

- You couldn't wait any more to be registered so you just had to do what you gotta do.
(34:39)
- Yes, and we wrote to every
deputy of the Bundestag, with a little brochure about us, and we wrote to the
members of the Bundestag, which is the second chamber, after all this [#help wouldn't helped](34:58)
because we had to [#help head our block](35:00), which was read very much at this time
and, of course, there we said our opinion
and in the end, the Bundestag president, so
the highest person in the state, had to
sign this law to make it come in force
and we'd wrote to him, but in the
end, the law took force. 

- So, let's just kind of recap very
briefly here: you've created a society,
you get rejection a lot for years.
A law has passed, that seems, at the time, and it's touted by anti-zoo
activists as an anti-zoo law

(35:41)
- This is a little discouraging to
have to work through all that, be
rejected in every direction, and yet
still you guys kept pushing through.
So, I'll say I was kind of give a spoiler
for the people keeping score at home,
eventually, it was decided that this new
law did not apply to zoofiles, and will
probably be getting to that here soon.
At this time, this is about 2012...

- It was ready too the Bundestag, in
December I think, 2012 on february, 2nd of february, in
which we defined afterwards as zoophile's
rights day, it passed the

Bundestag, and i think 22 july
12 in 2013, it wents in, it came to force.

[TODO : To continue here ...]
- Okay and then you guys had about a year

to do something about it is that right

you can challenge the law if you think

its disturbs your civil rights the

rights you guys challenge that law in

what way we searched for a lawyer who

had already made this kind of challenges

night with entry found one and then we

had to find two people so who think they

are disturbed in their rights so these

two persons although they weren't any

more members of theta said they take the

risk and be our persons the persons of

the people who making this complaint we

aceite could not make this complaint

because we are still not registered and

we are not a legal entity so it must be

a natural person or to natural persons

who's complaining

well it costs a lot of money a lot of

time and some work but we had scientists

who supporting us with with texts they

wrote from their science sort of you in

the in science and so you had this kind

of like coalition of like ignant hey

assholes

we're affected by this negatively yeah

and

and here's all the experts need to know

that this is bullshit yes and what is

not very much known we also had a letter

of Peter Oh which in which there was

said that zu who was who had to go to to

the courts because antes thought he

would have raped his dog and took the

dog away and the dog disappeared then he

was there with his other dog and one

significant member of Peter wrote a

letter to this court that he did not

think that this person is doing bad for

dogs so this this also went to the bonus

for fastened skillet well in the year

later more or less there was a decision

about 95% of the complaints the

professor's clicked did not take it to a

decision but they wrote a reason why

they did it and in this reason it was

said because of well in the Lord said

that you are not allowed to demand of

animals things they cannot maybe just to

cite the law the law is it is forbidden

to use an animal wants sex for one's own

sexual acts or to train or make

available an animal for sexual acts of

third parties they are by forcing it to

behave in an abusive manner so the the

the last part of this law is what's

critical because you have to decide

whether the law asserts that you you

force it to behave in that way or

whether whether you have to find that

someone causes the animal in order to

the law to apply yeah and in another

part of this law it is said that you are

not allowed to demand a from an animal

something the animal

not to and the the Mustafa single it

said well it means that you allowed

allowed to the amount of animals things

they can do do do you use force physical

force then of course it's not allowed to

have sexual contacts with an animal but

what is this with psychological

psychological psychological force and

their the the this decision said that

it's must of such a strength or that it

resembles to physical force because of

zoophiles no one wants to force an

animals to have sex with them you say no

if they don't want then there's not

there's none then because of this zoo

files are not afflicted by this law and

now we're it's where this is clear it is

off cam this is has come to the yeah

zoos before the victory means that you

were safe basically from the law as long

as you're not abusing animals yes yeah

now comment I think at one point you had

kind of described how your stretch your

strategic thinking for having challenged

this law you want to kind of kind of

describe how you were thinking about

challenging the law yes so the the

problem with the law was that it was was

sad to be a anti zoophilia law so I

clearly clearly from the debates that

were in the media the law was meant to

be against Sioux Falls but from what was

written in the law it was clearly not

against us at all but it was against

so-called animal products which was a

rumor that was spread at that time yeah

let's just be clear about that real

quick because we've watched a lot of

things

and kind of doesn't send some digging on

that animal brothels there's no evidence

that they've ever existed and the ones

that were alleged to exist turned out to

be hoaxes that is correct for Europe

that's correct

there's a single animal protocol in

Indonesia it's thing I think where they

abuse foreign Newtons something like

that

so that's that's one that's been

verified

yeah that's verified and otherwise

there's that does not exist a single

other one and if there was any in

Germany we would fight to get it closed

and free the animals but the the these

rumors were used to tell the story about

Siviglia to resume towards Denmark and

all the stupid stuff which there wasn't

any as well and the antes knew about

that and they still kept talking about

that they kept talking about five

hundred thousand animals killed every

year by zoo farts and yeah and we

actually calculated try to calculate the

number what that would mean how many who

fights they had to exist for that to

actually be possible and how long it

would take before exhale extinction of

all animals in Europe if that number was

true yeah it was about two or five years

so these are outlandish claims yeah yeah

but the claims were made by animal

protection organizations right so not

just random people it was made by those

organizations so the the public debate

made it clear that the law was again was

meant against zoo fans the actual law

seemed to be meant against those

imagined animal brochures so just to get

until to get clarification about that we

went to the

the constant constitutional court and

had to winning scenarios winning

scenario one would be to have this law

taken back or a clarification that the

law is not about zoophilia the second

winning scenario became reality

so we celebrated that in the same way

the ante is celebrated the law when it

when it passed the Parliament there was

so it's just just a tiny little bit but

they used a cert in their article they

use a certain picture of of champagne

and we search that picture it was one

photo photo stock or something and we

use the exact same picture that's cheeky

so you guys okay so comment you or in an

interview before and then after this law

happened with a certain female reporter

who remarked on your luscious eyelashes

original tell me about that first

interview because you know reading the

interview she does seem kind of like oh

god this is weird and gross at least at

first

well I I don't think that from my

perspective it was she wrote a letter to

Zeta and two of us said okay we would do

such an interview and then we had a lot

of lots of interview via via Skype and I

recorded the interview so they are they

sum up to maybe ten or fifteen hours of

interview oh my gosh well and that was

just for the preparation so I thought

yeah after that she went to the place of

the Yahoo and I went with her to and

there he had

actually interview which took about

three or four hours again yeah so I know

so like what I what I noted was a sense

of sort of apprehension and I feel like

maybe it was like obligatory

apprehension like you know I have to

show some sort of sign that you know I

don't readily and like yeah like I'm not

readily actively like pro this issue I

have to show some distance and kind of

show apprehension to it yeah that's a

common technique I think they they try

to mirror works society things or what

the reader may think and then take them

on on the journey of new information

based on on having the same position at

the beginning so what what you can see

in the first articulately it was trying

to paint an image of a secret zoophile

society where it was hard to get into or

to find something when in reality she

wrote a letter and he said yes yeah they

like to represent zoos as a secret

society that that term come here is not

a my friends I found that this picture

changed dramatically over the last six

years so there's a newer video by a

German form art called Y collector and

so he started his this video first with

a kind of trigger warning which seems to

be usual nowadays and then he said well

it was easy to find a zoophile

I just wrote a letter and we went so so

just by having a lot of interviews over

the time which is I guess over a dozen

by now the perception of sulphides

changed in this first impression they

they give and I also think that it

changes further because the more

interviews we give or the more articles

we have the the next journalist who

wants to make a new article will read

those articles and then we'll invite Oh

to find thumb say something new to tell

about so just happy they get they get a

bigger picture with more perspective and

like a more accurate reflection of who

you are yeah and also for that I think

it's possible to it's important to have

as many different people to tell about

the talk about themselves yes I agree

because you run into the risk of

becoming a cliche when being the one

representives zoophile in the world and

right every other zoo seems to be the

same way I think it's important to have

as many different salutely yes different

perspective now speaking of that the two

of you are both out as zoo files in your

lives Nisan yes correct yes that's

correct yes partially click now for I'll

get to that so Michael you are you free

for you it's completely correct yes yes

all right

so how did it come about that you what

was your experience coming out as a zoo

and what is your experience as a zoo who

is out over the past six years no it's

more like oh no I'm talking about like

you know Suze Hughes kinda was saying

that your perception has changed over

the past six years

oh so how is your experience as being in

out zoo changed over the past six years

well in the beginning I was very

cautious then I don't really know know

how it came but I was more or less open

since II the discussions in the

you toxics I was with my real name there

nothing happened and then I had a

website since 1999 15 lakh well you know

you in Germany you must have impression

impression where you write your your

contacts contact a really you're like

required to by law and oh that's insane

the US were very very protective of diet

as well as a good citizen citizen and

working for the state of call of course

I wrote it there and nothing happened

and some friends of mine knew it and in

the I am I was singing in a choir I move

a move now away and kind of kind of get

that anymore but every year we go on a

weekend with a choir and on one of this

weekend I made a reading out of my

translation of the horsemen and and well

they were somewhere looking strange but

nothing happened I'm still in this choir

and if they like me and there is

something to be said about being a human

being being out of the zoo yes I think

the closer the people are the the less

important or dangerous dangerous it is

to to come out because they know you and

that you are a zoo is just another

information about you which have perhaps

perhaps guessed somehow and that's

that's this way that's me ye so loving

with the stork and so on and but it is

not as just another information and it

doesn't matter very much the the the

power of the people are the more they

get excited and hostile and my mother

perhaps you see she she thoughts about

it something somehow but she never said

something and she is never reading the

build site on which is notorious German

like a tabloid yeah not a tablet but

that's the sudden in England in the 50s

there was even a decision of a court

that build site on has not it was not

allowed anymore to call it its site on

which is newspaper because for a

newspaper you know you have to have at

least at least a very small part of fair

effect their journalists responsibility

well but they called me and said they

wanted to write something about me

whether I would give some an interview

and I talked and then they said well if

you don't give us an interview you are

writing what take anything they are

watching something anyway

and so I I got them here and they came

very full of suspicion and went

light-hearted and enthusiastic

enthusiastic Wow so so Cassie my dog

heads convinced them some weeks later

the first set said it would only be in

the Berlin part of this build site on

but of course it was in the

national national part of the boots item

I lost I left my wife for a dog which

was not really true now the rest the

rest of the article was what was it bad

only the headline was bullshit like my

mother never reads built Zeitung

although she is if she's not in in

holidays of course she was in holidays

and then I got the phone call and talk

about 3/4 of an hour but in the end it

was well we were still friends that's

gone after some somewhere afterwards the

things got worse when Facebook and other

social networks came to came on the

scene a piece near I don't know this a

piece was not a thing in Germany it was

it was a big for Denmark's anti zoo

balls it was one of the anonymous

operations operation beasts and they

were the ones that were posting all

those things online with like pictures

of animals being abused in non-sexual

way yeah next to stop the anti zoo

propaganda yeah so that was a beast and

so they really push for Denmark's laws

and got that passed and I think they I

got the impression they were really

working on all of Europe so you did not

have a lot of it were other groups

interests and and it was as in a

predecessor of Facebook which was caught

via country who knows who where another

zoo who was also in animal welfare

that's given us his homepage the SATA

homepage which was not the best idea

no and

then there was an uproar and this Aussie

was the guy whom the dog was taken away

right here some people had announced

they're coming to beat us up right so we

set here with three bottles of pepper

spray and me and him and a very good

female friend of mine which and we were

sitting here and no one came of course

that income well I know there was this

one point where you had people outside

of your house yes this was indeed they

made in the immediate administration

let's say yeah you said in the in the

translation they called a silent vigil

which is a very experienced thing when

we think of silent vigil in the u.s. we

think of like a like a funeral sort of

thing with candles mm-hmm was like yes

but they had not candles was over the

day and they stood there and gave

leaflets with propaganda to the people

and talk to people and so on and then

and then they wanted to come to me and

they came to me well and there were 30

persons standing out of in front of my

garden door and weren't calling with a

megaphone some paroles like how I ignore

which was the mist ministry at this time

protect the animals and so on and I said

I'm leaving in the middle of nowhere

yeah and I said well yes she will hear

you and an hour after an hour and after

of course giving lots of propaganda to

my neighbors they disappeared again and

next day I was at the police complaining

because they have to you have to

announce to the police it's you're

making a demonstration right and from

when we saw the times and the place

and what the police did not verify was

that the way to my work to where I live

is also private property and they were

on private property Wow

in the end I got a phone call of the

county police in chief who was saying

well sorry for that we did not verify

all of what I did that so on well yes

then the second time they came but then

the state they state well they should

these should should stay did not come to

private property and I wasn't alone at

this time we made a barbecue here with

some friends and when the barbecue was

over it began to rain and the antis

disappeared how about that one thing we

run free once did this bipolar guy had a

web space and he was of the opinion that

everybody must know everything

no secrets and everything very good well

and we stopped there an invitation for a

Zita gathering somewhere in the middle

of nova via the rhine and of course we

knew that the antes would find it and

indeed they came there was a lot of

people and were very unfriendly to some

people on a camping place but we weren't

here the ant is also spilled propaganda

and outed me on my working place my mike

university picked me up that's kind and

they said well he's doing his work he is

not harassing others with zoophilia

what she doesn't is in its private life

is not all it's not all affair and well

I I'm still there and if I'm if I'm

lucky or we go to retirement in two

years oh really Congrats that's

fantastic that yes yes you know and you

know a lot of times the these auntie's

want to convince us that no one else

will ever stand up for us and we find

that in the real world that is often not

true

and yet it's good to keep in mind that

that that real people are often a lot

more decent than we often assure

ourselves that they are you know right I

think we have more more fears than it's

needed

yes well they want us to be that way it

said of course

so come on you said earlier that you're

not you're you're out but not it's not

entirely the case what did you mean by

that

so I'm not out in public when I give

interviews

I tell the donors that I can have that

they can have my voice they can have my

thoughts my opinions but they cannot

have my name or my opinion okay yeah

that's that's a very strict rule because

once they have my name because I have a

distinctive name that only exists once

on this planet that could be right so

there's there's power in a name yeah and

that's there are some people who who

like to once they have a name they use

it in their articles and claim things

about things about anything and if I if

I would go to a company and they would

google my name they would find would

find out easily and that could be a big

problem for my line so so I I keep them

secret

I don't even tell the journalists what

my name I came out to my friends in the

end of 2012

so about 12 friends at the same time Wow

hmm they were all fine I imagine you

like it is a small dinner and you stand

up with a little champagne glass and tap

on it with the fork excuse me friends I

haven't announced a it was it was more

like after the I became very depressed

and my friends noticed that and they

said a comment what's going on I told

them that that's that is what just

happened at that and that depresses me

and they said what we know you you're

fine with it

a little bit of encouragement friends

that's what's up mm-hmm actually that

was a big release for me teacher because

after that we could talk about the topic

free

there was one significant situation

after we came back from a tournament of

our sport we sat together at the pizza

and one of the one of my my friends put

his hand on mine telling me something

about a green field where we were lying

and then there was the moon and

something he was talking about something

romantic and then he said something

about a unicorn and I interrupted him

and said oh are you talking about the

unicorn I left you for everyone on the

table understood everyone was laughing

with me and that was such a great

situation such ratings which we have

yeah so that helped me it helped me

along sure I love that I love that

there's really like there's no there's

no substitute for supportive friends

really and you know I feel bad I see a

lot of people are like you just can't

trust anyone with this and I feel like

it's human nature to have someone you

can trust with these things you know

mm-hmm and the relief of having that is

it's so important for your mental health

I think mm-hmm yes yeah I mean you

definitely become sick with having to

keep such an important part of yourself

a secret because there's there's a

difference between secrecy and privacy

you know and I think most of us are

private people but when you have to keep

something a secret like that I mean it

eats away because you have to start

covering for it you know in a situation

where the honest answer is one thing you

have to make something else up and

people pick up on that and they don't

know what's up and a lot of times you

know they might think that there's

something really untoward and you're in

your personal life when it's like no

it's it's nothing like that it's it's

just something that's been you know

demonized in yes you know media in

people's minds but and that's why as

you're saying comment and it's been my

experience and I know toggles experience

to the people who already know you and

know your character and whether you're a

good person or not when you come out to

them they don't have a problem with it

even if they you know might not want to

think too much about it because it you

know it might be gross to them or

whatever and that's that's fine that's

if that's their honest feeling but for

you as a person they they understand

that you are still the same person that

they that they knew before and it's

really only the people who have no idea

who you are as a person who immediately

jumped to demonizing you and calling you

an abuser and all these things yes and I

and I observed that this is mostly women

who are demonizing you interesting I

think a lot of women have had

experiences with sexualized for and and

say yes good no they think that the

animals is like them and want to protect

them with all the force female member

has and so they

this week we'll explain perhaps a lot of

the the vehemence II know they they

force these people are they the energy

the the the much energy these these

people this women have to fight him

right so basically because of their

experiences as well it's not really

their fault it's definitely a societal

thing where we will review sex this is

kind of power exchange where you know

one person is taking something from

another systematically objectified yeah

the women are subjected to that and so

they they would definitely I can

understand why they would perhaps be

more more prone to that although I would

love to hear a female's perspective on

that just kind of to verify that

especially from a female zoos

perspective I wonder how well that

translates for them but you know comment

I want to say what what as someone who

is out with your friends starting from

this very crucial moment where this law

has been passed how has your experience

as an altitude changed over the past six

years not at all to be honest so for for

that nothing has changed I think has

changed the relationship I'm I'm even

out to my family and nothing has changed

there I didn't I didn't come out to my

in my company so I couldn't find the

courage to be honest sometimes is

another fucking business you know it's

funny our friend doodle we were

recording a podcast I think it was last

month and doodle was at his workplace

when he was he's trying to get his

laptop and his boss was like hey what

are you doing

he's like recording a podcast oh really

you're in a podcast what kind of podcast

is it tell me about your podcast he was

like it is a zoophile podcast and as

well as like oh it's really well I guess

as long as you're not actually hurting

animals I guess I don't care I mean you

know it was very very scary for him but

he is still employed again he's known

he's known his boss there for I don't

know like a decade or something like

that so his boss knows who he is as a

person right and we actually went inside

after that and and we all had to talk

together and yeah the guy was just you

know he's like I you know like I

understand it's you know it's it's odd

and I don't necessarily want to hear

about it but at the same time like it

was what he said it's like I I know you

know doodle and and I know that he would

never hurt anyone and and you know it's

it's fine I want to add something about

the advantages of being out yes please

absolutely for a long time of my life I

tried to suppress a zoophilia I even

married and had a therapist and all the

other things and in the in the end you

you end up with having to control

yourself

you're what you say what you think that

your breath does not be fast in in

situations and when someone is telling

telling a Sofer a joke all this consumes

a lot of energy and more energy at least

at I that I could produce so I was

always something like depressive now

this is gone the second advantage is you

cannot be blackmailed so it's my number

one advantage if someone if someone says

oh you're a zoo I would tell someone

it says everybody knows

yes you know an episode three I believe

we talked about blackmail and the most

radical thing you can do to to

undermined someone who might blackmail

you is disclose the information yourself

mm-hmm which can be very scary for zhuzh

especially in the u.s. I know even

especially in places where it's far less

tolerant than the US but you know that

sort of power taking that power back and

giving it to yourself is how shall I say

empowering yes yeah and it also it

relieves you because when something so

central like your sexuality is

criminalized it it necessarily casts a

pall on it you know and we hear the

terms you know like shadowy and deep

dark in these things and there's nothing

dark about my sexuality there's nothing

dark about the sexuality of my friends

is you know as far as I've witnessed and

being out like that and owning what you

are and embracing it is an incredibly

powerful way of casting that stigma out

of your own heart that because it does

get internalized of course however hard

you fight it and that is very much fed

by having to be secretive about it

because you know that's the the

expression you know of that of that

paradigm you know as being secretive you

have to keep it secret well if you don't

then what happens well you realize that

it's just fine you know I think the

other the thing about coming out is that

when you are out you become a person in

the eyes of everyone around you who also

is a zoophile so you make zoophile human

and you think one of the problems that

we have is that when laws are being

passed and things like that Zoo files

are and a caricature of what we are

someone else defines what we are when we

are not there just to define ourselves

yes right yes so I wonder having had

this conversation with you guys what

can we in the u.s. learned from the

struggles you had in Germany with your

legal system so just I don't know how

familiar are in the u.s. the legal

battles with best eality start at about

98 99 with a sayers who Randy Pepe etc

etc yeah so we have a legacy the other

difference between us and say Germany is

that our laws are passed state by state

by state by state so you don't have an

you don't have a federal law even being

considered until maybe last year and so

you don't have you have this kind of

like oh well it may be illegal in Oregon

but it's not illegal in Texas oh but now

it's legal in Texas but you know it's

not illegal in Vermont and so you kind

of have this more gradual like taking

over of the legal system so to speak and

so we have 20 years of laws being passed

against us without anyone representing

us yes and I wonder what we can take

from your position where you start from

being legal with perhaps misperceptions

and then becoming illegal and then

getting the clarification that you're

not one advice would you give to

activists in the u.s. now trying to

fight twenty years of not having any

representation under the law make an

organization all right start an

organization reachable by journalism and

scientists that's the most important

thing because everything you do and say

is read by journalists and scientists

actually we have when we have the debate

in 2020 about about this new law mm-hmm

there was an anthropologist who was

reading about everything that we wrote

and everything that the and his bro and

he actually wrote a paper about the

whole process and he called it something

like at last zoophilia and the normative

retroflex e or something like that

he wrote it in Germany and German and so

in his article he he refers to articles

of Zetas he even refers to articles on

FINA talk which was Michael something so

the next scientist that will read his

paper will also be referred to our

website and our animals and this is how

you become actual part of the science

and can have an impact on the sign also

with with journalists I'd say for the

first interviews I wouldn't cooperate

with yellow press right absolutely

no no no because they will bring your

loaded questions and find ways to turn

what you say against you well so once

you're visible as an organization there

will be journalists that let's say oh I

want to do a report about you I want to

talk with you about its aphelion and it

would be good to have people who are fit

talking with journalists they know how

what quotes are used and which ones are

are for example I found when you use

complex sentences most of the times they

don't use them at all

right so that so they want these quick

short sentences that everyone can

understand so what you may work may try

to work out some sentences you want to

say you interview to make sure that they

can be part of the article or the video

that is Frank yeah and then don't fear

to repeat yourself yes we we have a we

have had a few interviews recently that

all went the this in the same scheme

sort of so now the

most would visit us we would walk

through a forest they would film us and

and our animal partner and then you

would he would go on with it an anti zoo

or a or Peter or whoever or maybe a

psychologist talk to them and cut

everything together just recently we got

a request from journalists mm-hmm who

has seen all these videos and he said

where they are all the same scheme I

don't want to make it the same way I

want to make different maybe we can have

a zoo and an auntie in the same room

discussing with each other yeah yeah

it's scary but also fun and I consider

that this next step I think when you see

us next to each other you realize who's

the more reasonable of the two mm-hm

exactly and also right now this

journalist held a big trouble finding an

auntie to talk with interesting because

they don't want it they don't want to

talk with us they want to propagate

their position they don't want to argue

right well then you get some advantage

as well if you if you feel fear then you

feel fear it's not much it will go away

somewhere and if you get in trouble

because of what you do or what you say

or that you are out that it's far easier

to cope to hanging with this trouble

we tend with the fear of this trouble

right right right right right

it is easier to deal with the actual

trouble than it is to deal with being

afraid of the trouble yes I wanted to to

ask a little bit more we don't have to

talk about it now because it seems like

we were not focusing on this part of

things but when you were talking about

the history of Zeta vine yeah that right

fine I sound so it sounds so much better

when he said

so you had been contemplating making an

organization well in advance of the law

right it's Wendy when the first first

draft of a 90 sulla appeared on the

scene yes so it was basic so the the

possibility of a law being passed was

the factor that even got you thinking

about making an organization no it was

that was is that the factorized effect

of making in an organization there were

many thoughts about an organization but

it never came to reality it was that

factor that that turned it was yes yeah

yeah yeah catalyst is Lord that I need

that made it suddenly necessary to

actually do it rather than to just think

about it but you had been talking about

Zeta Pride conventions and I had wanted

to know what the the social situation

frizzies in Germany is and was and it

sounds like it was a pretty close-knit

before there was a need for an

organization to to fight in the courts I

close it but what is it well it's close

knit me close knit means you had a very

close relationship with one another okay

at least in my case it is not this way I

don't have so many contacts I know that

there were people and I know that if

something happens I can contact them and

we will be the same friends like we were

20 years ago

but I have not so many many contacts

also not in in in normal life because

people in control those is okay but not

too much so I can't say very much about

it but I think before the auntie's came

into place there was there were forward

there also were people who had a lot of

contact with each other and perhaps met

themselves and afterwards then there was

a lot of fear there was a lot of fear

between the Xu's and everybody

disappeared in the dark not everybody

but a lot of them disappeared in the

dark I think I'm not sure about it but I

think that there are a lot of little

circles of friends but you don't hear

anything about some perhaps commit us no

more no it's the same thing for me I'm

actually not active in any discussion

board anymore also because the the

debates are most of the time just the

same and by once you're through them it

becomes kind of boring

oh yeah so so I have if it's just like

Micah said I have a few friends new

friends that I have regular contact and

I rarely add or get a new one so far

friend nowadays oh no it's kind of

quieted down the new contact wishes it's

a bit sad but I guess if I start to be

active in the zoo zoo five board

discussion boards that would become new

one very soon but I just I'm just not

that active there are many boats left

yeah yeah we have one or two John what's

today's it's it a telephone info and

part of zoo ball is in German but has a

German part so I wonder let me ask you a

question this is maybe or maybe not off

the record that we're still recording

when he had someone on Twitter obviously

Twitter is is not really representative

of like

the struggle but we had someone on

Twitter that was very critical of people

on Twitter suggesting that you know no

one was interested in any sort of

advancement of zoo rights based on what

they had seen now obviously they had not

talked to me very much

they had not talked to anyone associated

with our pod has nobody talked they talk

but none of us who are actually doing

this kind of thing and critiqued both

the Twitter platform and the podcast is

being somehow not valid or legitimate

activism what are your thoughts on that

activism is when you open your mouth

well said my friend I think there are

many people who prefer some kind of

ostrich they in Germany some zoos think

that we are the reason for them the new

law that came in 2012 we get that a lot

yeah and oh yeah yeah and that they

claim that if we had just stayed silent

so nobody would have recognized us we

wouldn't have that law today no I think

otherwise

there are activists who push toward

those topics and if you stay silent you

will be discriminated over time yep they

because because they can tell the

stories about you that may be true or

not true but they have the control over

the stories no they can do it they can

do you unless you and the only way to

counter that is to tell your own stories

let's think about this actually you know

in in our situation in the u.s. these

laws are passed without fanfare no one

is fighting against them and when we

think of the stories that may lead to

them like unum claw

what really comes into place is that

let's say you know pinion dying via

horse the story that is told is not the

story of what happened and so we some

people will point it and say look if he

had just you know been quiet or whatever

if that hadn't happened if no one had

seen it then that law wouldn't be passed

but in reality what it is is that

something happens and no one is there to

actually tell the right story yes you

know the story is cared for us by people

who do not have our interests in mind

yes and it's silly to say like that

people who are mutilating animals

sexually or not torturing animals they

get suppressed this is an in sensation

but hundred people who are living in in

in in loving harmony with their partners

and perhaps have sex with them no one

talks about them if they don't talk

about themselves right great

you know it's also like I'm thinking

there's this popular on Twitter article

that's thrown around it's this autopsy

report of an animal that's been sexually

abused and they use that as you know

they send it to us saying look see this

is how you know there's a scientific

article that's anti zoo and I'm like yes

but the problem here is that the

representative population is add an

animal and that's not representative do

relationships with animals and look for

the origins of these pictures yeah here

they also ventilate a lot of pictures of

mutilated animals but usually mutilated

just regularly sexual interaction

ocularly but if you follow them if you

follow them pick and in search where

these pictures appeared the first time

then it comes that it was in in Turkey

or somewhere at the other side of the

words and not in Germany

some sometimes they would even just use

random pictures that look like something

else

yes example there's a that's a picture

of a female dog who had an operation I

don't know what operation but her back

was covered in Inyo Dean yeah it looks

like blood and I said oh the stock was

right to death okay it was a male I'm a

job yes okay but the point is that they

they light up stories they make up

stories about pictures they just find at

some place some random place on the

Internet right it's interesting to me

it's always been interesting to you that

they they feel that they have to lie

it's just it's just that propaganda

technique they they know which stories

work with people and so they try to tell

those stories right that's that's that's

how their political strategy works and

the only way it took the only way to

counter that is first research the true

story behind a picture second popplers

the true story again on your on your

website so people can research the true

story and thereby get a chance to see

how these people are lying and see the

the funny thing to me is that when they

try to present these absurd cases as

being somehow representative of zoo

files if what they were saying was true

we would all be immediately jailed

because all of our animals would be

completely fucked up and every time we

took them to the vet they would see all

these horrible signs of abuse and you

know strange behavior which of course

they don't because they're not yes right

you know but it never seems to occur to

them that sorry half a million five

hundred thousand is the judicious

estimate so I want to say like we would

you know obviously we did a little bit

of research we looked up the zeta

Society for for you know what you stand

for your Constitution and I want to say

I think a lot of what you stand for

aligns very much with our vision of our

podcast so I will I would be so bold as

the hope that we can work together in

the future as well I would love that

it's yes I think we have lots of stuff

to talk about we still want to talk

about but I think we've got a pretty

good basis for for today a good

understanding of you know the past of

the zeta Society and the situation in

Germany so I want to thank you so so

much for coming and joining us today it

has been an absolute pleasure it's been

a privilege to talk with you too

thank you for coming and hanging out

with us we'll be right back with more

zoo in the nail right after this you've

been there for me my whole life

you taught me everything I'm at a time

my shoes to how to be a decent person

you tell me you love me every day and I

love you too we have no secrets between

us except that I am a zoophile

and I am afraid to tell you when you ask

when am I gonna have grandkids how could

I ever explain that my first love was

our family dog you tell me you love me

unconditionally but other parents have

disowned their daughters for less so I'm

a zoophile you note but you've known me

all my life

I'm still the same girl you raised

ultimately you decide how our

relationship continues from here you

could abandon me and disgust and claim

you have no daughter or you could be the

rock that you've always been and try to

understand and tell me you still love me

I think you always have what will you do

hello ladies and gents and all else in

between your favorite Dame of a Dane is

very very excited to be back here at ztt

soon just enjoying the tail end of a

little trip pardon the pun

you see I've never been a fan of cold

weather and while there's no shortage of

devilish dogs and donkeys deigning to

dote on the Dane in a dirty deco

lessened demeanor I can't help a

liveable iteration i benched watched the

last season of Bojack horseman on the

flight you see but your lovely host has

decided to take her amorous adventures

to the Pacific Hawaii to be specific

I'll just get right to it

this trip took me to the city of Kahului

on the island of Maui this Dane does

prefer to avoid colonialist resorts and

obvious tourist traps she's much better

than that but I'd much rather spend my

time out in the nearby West Maui Forest

Reserve flaunting my flair to the

forests fauna which is exactly what I

did it didn't take too long before I met

up with a stud of a boar and not to

mince words but you could Bowl with his

balls I caught his eye and worked the

charm that I'm certain you're all

already familiar with it didn't take

long for the gruff handsome beast to

find his way on top of me and right out

in the middle of the forest like an

untamed a wild animal

he took me it didn't take long for that

corkscrew cock to climb down into me

doggy style

in the mud and I do enjoy a nice mud

bath so this wasn't out of my wheelhouse

and when he came he came buckets and

bathtubs unloading for a good 30 minutes

the stain was swelling aching in all the

best ways then my enthusiasm for his

talented tool led my beautiful boar to

introduce me afterwards to a friend of

his a dexterously dick to dolphin whose

prehensile penis provided pleasure

excellence I had also read a lot of

Shakespeare on the flight

pardon my poetics however it's hard to

be bored being bored by a bore but

dipping my toes in the water to feel

something long wet and wriggly twist

around in my woof

forgive me I'm a bit flustered now but

anyway that's where I've been cold

weather is fine for cuddling but your

lovely host much prefers it hot now if

you'll excuse me I'm in a bit of a mood

and I need to visit a local starter 2 or

a 5 your host is a bit pent up but she

is excited to see you all soon stay zuy

friends hi there my name is Randy the

RAM I reached out to the producers of

this podcast here and they're letting me

do so ok personal ads in the newspapers

are so old-fashioned and they didn't

know enough about Craigslist to put in

the thing is my hooves make it really

hard to swipe right on tinder so this is

my attempt at dating personal ad but um

they wrote it for a grinder or a howler

account are you sure you're ok with this

group and how would you like to be

rammed by a real Ram no need to be

sheepish my name is Randy and I'm here

to fuck

looking for bottoms only this ovis only

tops but I'm bisexual looking for

anybody who wants either hole rammed

think you're as horny as a bug or you

think you're ready for all five inches

then give me a call at five five five

one three two four horses may leave you

the horse and dogs may leave you panting

but this rim will make sure to leave you

counting sheep afterwards so sorry it

comes across better in text so uh you

know give me a call thanks friends for

listening to Xue er than thou join us

next time for the very last episode of

season one in which we'll share outtakes

from throughout the season and talk

about what comes next from here it

promises to be a ton of fun don't miss

it you can subscribe to the podcast via

our zuy RSS feed just point your

favorite podcast client at RSS zoo WTF

and off you go you can find us anywhere

find podcasts are distributed youtube

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your phone our podcast website is still

zu WTF it always has been and lo it

always shall be now and forever our

Twitter is at Xue er then bow and you

can follow Zooey's naughty advice at ask

zoo

follow me love cat at a cat who loves

you and toggle at one big grumpy rekt a

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podcast on our website zoo WTF you can

tell us your favorite episode of season

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send a spam mail in Korean you can also

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have to say it oh you remember the email

from earlier we are now obligated to

continue this joke into perpetuity which

mail is it mail as in why do so many

mail send us mail somehow that doesn't

clear anything else speaking of mail

please print out this episode and mail

it to all your friends or if you're in a

Valentine's Day mood share an earbud

with your crush

spread the zuy love everywhere you can

all nonhumans who contributed to this

podcast are members of the Zeta beam and

all have a really nice Zeta varsity

jackets did you know that dogs can do

meth now if they could just tell us how

many licks it takes to get to the creamy

center of a zoo a cream pup the world

may never know

a reminder to donate to our help save my

dot dog campaign we still got a long way

to go

even if you've contributed before please

consider contributing again help jason's

dog lucy walk again we can do it

I have recently witnessed the generosity

of zoos who have helped me out when a

stray was abandoned on my property we

have an opportunity to better the life

of an animal fellow zoos this is in our

bones let's put it to work I'm love cat

and I'm chock full of great aphorisms

and I on toggle your favorite rodent and

you've almost finished listening to zoo

ear than thou stay to fly a pillow zoos

we'll see you next time you feel like

howling at the moon

dammit hey you can't go in