Zooier Than Thou Transcripts S01E12
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[Work in progress by BojackFR] [Done to line 867 for now] [You can try to transcript what is been saif between [ and ], the timecode should be just after that between ( and )] The zooier than thou podcast contains mature content and language and may not be suitable for younger audiences . Thanks for your understanding. <opening> Greetings fellow zoos and welcome to a triumphant episode of Zooier Than Thou I'm a cat who loves you, love cat And I'm Toggle one big grumpy rat I'm sure you are and we'll be your hosts for this episode Wow episode 12 we're almost at the end of the first season ! It's almost hard to believe it's been a year and this time last year we hadn't even met No indeed, I'd have never met a great portion of the zoo crew without this podcast it's been a wonderful zoo year but more about that next episode yes today let's do some emails yes indeed ! first up, here's our friendly neighborhood zoo sexual, a regular contributor commenting on episode 11. Our friend writes in short : "I was kind of expecting to cry during this episode but instead you guys had me laughing so hard that my vision went fuzzy for several minutes" Oh... I'm super glad to hear that we were recording episode 11 right as Fausty passed but I didn't have the energy of that episode taken down by the tragedy we were all dealing with most of the episode was recorded just before he died so thankfully it wasn't hard to keep things in a positive perspective Speaking of, here is an email about episode 12 from kisses for bitches kisses writes: "love this episode especially with so many of you I've interacted with on Twitter, so sincerely sorry about Fausty and I've had simple DMS with him about ztt, uniquely dangerous and anti zoos. I would have personally liked to meet him either in voice or in person he was active online around the same time I was in the 90s and early 2000s I'm surprised we never crossed paths back then or maybe we did and I just didn't know it or don't remember we're almost exactly a year apart in age both in March Anyhow I'm so pleased that the zoo cast seems alive and well with the most recent episode. You rock loved cat ! great job to you all and my opinion is so important to us all that zoott continues even though Doug is no longer with us I think we can definitely all agree on that. The importance of this podcast to each of us on the team is definitely been reflected in the feedback that we've gotten from the majority of the people who have sent us feedback. It's pretty amazing, flattering, humbling, that we are able to do anything that has this kind of an impact in the lives of other people and especially others zoos out there in the world. Definitely and you know actually, there was a point where you know, Fausty were not sure that we could continue and I will tell you that the people who are working on Zoot right now were ready and willing to continue the podcast because they felt it was so important. So you do not have to worry about our faltering of dedication: we understand the importance of this podcast and, to be honest, it gives me such a great amount of fulfillment that I don't think I could stop even if I wanted to... Hmm-hmm and with with Fausty's passing at least for me the fact that he left us with this project has been one of the major factors that has allowed me to cope with his passing because I feel that as I'm putting my energy into this, that energy is not expressed as grief to nearly the extent that it would have been otherwise I don't know if you get that to Toggle I'm guessing Yeah I do yeah you know it's like I knew he wanted this to continue after he was gone and I can feel the energy when I [approach] the podcast like this is important, this is something that he wanted to keep going and by keeping it going, I know I'm keeping him alive in a way - Absolutely. Already here's a short email from speechless in Seattle who writes so is it mail spelled M-A-I-L or mail spelled M-A-l-E "hope I'm not clogging up your inbox with random jokes. One of the many endearing parts of your podcast which I expected myself to grow tired of but found that I'm not. Brandon today (glad to know that) a random tidbit my friends mom's mailbag says mail male on it - Oh no that's these mail-male bit has fans - We try to clog this podcast full of terrible puns as much as possible because we have a terrible sense of humor thanks for putting - And thanks for enjoying the podcast. Ask your friends mom where I can get a bag like that Alright. So the next email is from Abe rodent this rodent writes "dear Zoot I first heard about your podcast and Toggle' specifically last year, but I was too scared to make contact so I just lurked. Eventually I summon enough courage to reach out to the ratty co-host with the first words "please don't block me !". I then explained that I was a zoo sexual and how I felt about animal welfare in general. He pointed me to this podcast and in about four days I listened to every single episode to date. It was the first time I had ever seen zoos portrayed positively which is something I wish that I had seen when I first started looking for other zoos and inevitably found Beastforum mm-hmm I didn't like the abuse that I saw and I was scared I think that I might be like them. In other words I don't remember seeing positive and healthy interspecies relationships like I had wanted. This podcast and the community around it has changed that : it was refreshing to see zoo sexuals representing themselves in a positive way, combating bigotry and stereotypes with accurate representation. It even encouraged me to come out to a non zoo which went amazingly well In fact my only regret is that I never reached out when I first learned to the podcast Instead, the first day I spoke to toggle was the last day that Fausty was alive and it was a very emotional time for him and his loved ones. I wish I could have said hi. However, now it is the future and I am reinvigorated to help support animals and those of us who love them more than most in any small way that I can. I am still scared however, I realized that we don't represent ourselves others will as you always say : "exposure is the solution" Thank you for keeping the podcast alive. Uou guys do a great job and I hope this is a valuable community resource for future zoos. Sincerely, Abe rodent" - That's a beautiful email (yeah) that one touches me deeply and especially what he says here about wishing to have spoken to Fausty, it just brings home that we have to take the opportunities that we have to mean the people that are important in our lives and to always take every opportunity to remind the people that we already have in our lives our friends and our families that we love them that they matter to us that that we cherish them and understand that once they're gone they're gone and every chance that we had to let them know how important they were in our lives will become with them. For Fausty, I'm sure you remember Toggle, when I first reached out to him, I had just read the book and I the last thing that I saw was a news article online saying that he had been sent to prison and I thought that that's where he was yeah until I heard his voice on the podcast, and I can't tell you the feeling of happiness that gave me to know that I wouldn't have to somehow find my way through you know, trying to contact him anonymous in prison, you know and I was just imagining him rotting away there in jail, but it it's a source of, well, I mean joy and purpose and meaning in my life a lot of which stemmed from Doug and from what he represented to me before during and now after having known him in person this past year. So I think it's very important that we continue to reach out to the people in our lives and build this community because the communities was made [of the people who were](8:47) in it so I would encourage Broden to continue what he's doing. Yeah and remember you know Fausty is just one of many older zoos that have a perspective that a lot of us that have been here just for the last 20 years may not have. So reach out to older zoos they have a lot of good stuff to say. Yeah reach out to a lot of zoos I mean I've met a couple of dozen zoos just over this past year, having gone the entire previous bunch of my life never having met another one and knowing other zoos has been incredibly powerful just to have other people around whom I can let that guard down and not have to worry either that they're going to reject me or that they're going to not necessarily object me but just kind of not really want to know about that. I've been incredibly lucky with friends and family who are non zoos and their total acceptance of me, but at the same time there's just nothing like the fellowship that I felt with others zoophiles. (9:50) You know this fellow Broden reached out to me last month and was so skittish and afraid at first like but as he listened to our podcast it was clear that a sense of pride in himself was blooming and I am so glad that this thing we do could be a part of instilling that sense of self-confidence and self-worth. He has become a very good friend and I'm glad we finally met even if the timing was particularly depressing but I will say you know hearing his positive experience with the podcast while I was dealing with the Fausty's passing was actually very helpful for me in [coping](10:24) So, rock on Broden, let's get the heavy around as a friend love you bud. And now, we have so many emails and we apologize if we haven't gotten to yours yet. Some of them were holding on for future episodes, some of them we haven't had time to reply to yet but rest assured we do read each and every one. Don't be afraid to reach out as my Broden found out we're not scary and we're not celebrities. We're just normal zoos like you, just doing something we're passionate about and we love meeting new people. (10:54) Alright friends, let's get into the topic at hand: last month, we set out to find [suit] perspectives from around the world and we collected a lot of really interesting interviews. Yeah we met with zoos from Peru, Germany, Sweden, Japan and I think a couple of other places as well. We found ourselves with a lot of interviews, way more than we have time to air on this single episode. Now rest assured we plan to release these interviews over time, but after our latest interview which lasted two hours we felt it would be beneficial to focus our time in one place and give them time to shine... 11:26 While we're not meant to be or capable of being all things to all people, we add Zooier Than Thou do hope to be representative of the zoo community and zoos are members of every other demographic: sexual, gender, ethnic, national, religious, economic, etc etc and our inclusivity is born from the respect for the validity and value of all living feeling life forms. So when we consider how we relate to each other as fellow animals and as Homo sapiens, we are informed by that attitude and we're making the effort to live that inclusivity. That means we want to make an effort to help share the experiences of zoos around the world of every background. There's a lot we could be doing to that end such as getting more women or trans people involved at the podcast, featuring more voices of color, etc e realize that we're limited on our perspective, being a largely male collection of zoos from the US, so we reached out to find more diverse perspectives. That said, we have decided to focus on one this episode we found to be particularly informative and one we think you'll particularly enjoy. We reached out to Michael Kiok and the Zeta Verein in Germany and we were thrilled when they agreed to meet with us. Yeah Michael is one of the first people Doug put on the list of potential interviews. As you hear later in the episode, Michael Kiok is the most well known zoophile in Germany and the organisation he helped create successfully fought back against the law which was touted as an anti zoophile law by animal rights groups. A lot of Zeta stated goals fall in line with Zooier Than Thou, and we hope you'll take some time to look at their website zeta-verein.de There's information translated in english there, and they recommend deepl.com(13:14) where translations are not available that's deepl.com One of the things that antizoos count is that zoophilia is illegal as a matter of moral justice, and that it's always been and always will be znd that all reasonable people will see it their way. (13:27) We all obviously know that's completely false and Zeta Verein story is an excellent example of that. Recently, in fact, I've personally been going back over the Danish Animal Ethics council's 2006 findings about Zoophilia, in which they concluded that no anti bestiality law was necessary, and it's been refreshing to hear complete non zoos speak reasonably and clearly about zoophilia. The objections people often raised about zoophilia and the conclusion that it's actually not harmful when the animals health and well-being is taken into consideration. The council followed up later on around the time the law and Denmark was passed, and found once again that their position had not changed and that they did not recommend that a law be passed, in spite of mounting social pressure and propaganda, that led politicians to ignore their recommendation. Several of the myths about animal sexuality are dismissed in this original rulings, such as animals only having sex for reproduction, when it's clear as they found they engage in sex primarily because of the pleasure derived from the activity. I found it quite refreshing! It was one of the first published zoophile media I've read when I decided to explore and do my own research. And if you haven't read it yet I have a copy unofficially translated English that you can have: I'll put a link in the description of this podcast, which you can see either at our website, or on YouTube for those coming from other places. We're excited to share this episode with you so I hope you'll stay tuned for more Zooier Than Thou now right after this. (14:53) This week's podcast is sponsored by twelve krumpers krumping: a new comedy by famed stud horse turn to playwright wild card Willy. Now playing off-broadway. Tickets are on sale now. And also by Germany: we do love our horses in Deutschland. And finally by alliteration: a sweet succulent succession of sounds that sound sound in a series or, if you prefer to infer, words with sequential potential. (15:36) You've definitely seen me before we've hung out, we've gotten along. You've told me your deepest secrets and I've listened without judgment. Your dog seems to like me so do your parents. "I'm a decent guy", you tell people. I'm also a zoophile, and I'm afraid to tell you well the strength of our relationship outweigh the taboo nature of my sexuality. Nine times out of ten, my experience is yes, but what if it's that one time ? I don't want to lose people I love. So I'm a zoophile you note. Yet I've never even looked at your dog, funny, I'm just normal. Ultimately, you decide your reaction to the news. You could become afraid that it'll fall back on you. You could become disgusted and paint me into a caricature of what I am, or you could try to understand, open your mind and your heart, and learn about me. What will you do?... (16:57) Welcome back, fellow zoos ! Today we have some very special guests with us today: I would like to introduce Michael Kiok and his compatriot Komet, of the Zeta society in Germany. Welcome guys ! We're super thrilled to have you Here this is actually you guys were on the top list of people that are good for an Fausty wanted to invite on the show from the very day one, so we're very excited to finally go get you guys on the air - I'm honored to be here - yes we are honored to have you - Nice to meet you So I'm curious I guess one of the best ways to start is I think a lot of people in the US don't know you very well but, Michael, you are someone infamous as I think a reporter said the most famous zoophile in Germany ? or well known perhaps ? Well known yes well it happens that during the [...](18:05) with the 80's and I got the face in the news. But your journey obviously doesn't start at becoming the most recognizable zoophile in Germany. I understand it starts much earlier, on usenet sounds like Yes, indeed on Usenet, it was about 1994-95 when I had access to the Usenet and found a newsgroup which was called alt.sex.bestiality, perhaps you know ? I have heard of it yes it is popped up in discussion a couple of times... Yes, and which as far as I could know was invented as a joke by some technician or computer man in some university and after a short time there were indeed [...](19:08) zoos which were gathering there and talking. Yeah it said something similar about an IRC channel [found dog sex](19:19) also apparently was a joke as well, jokes on them now. Yeah, then we're for real baby! Yes and it was for me and for a lot of other persons which were there, it was a big relief to find other people who also zoos [...](19:42) after a short while there were some people who were sympathetic with each other and already there began the distinctions between beastialists, so poor sex, and zoophiles, where the emotional bonds to the animals is in the foreground. I remember a group which was called real.world.zoos which wanted to define how many words you should talk a day with humans to remain a zoo, which was a little extra mystical I think (It's crazy ! Yes, that's actually crazy !) I remember a thing that Fausty said : the real world zoos are in a kind of a nutshell: if you aren't actively, you know, practicing bestiality and in a like a monogamous relationship with an animal, you weren't really a zoo. Is that kind of a good summary ? I think so people love defining each other out of kind of groups Yes. A little later, there was the topic arised ? arose ? in German newsgroups called de.talk.sex (called de.talk.sex ok, de for Deutschland) yeah you know, exactly. And afterwards it was called [big deep talk _____] (21:28) which is the same, but isn't it so well flooded by spambots because the area was flooded with spam. There were some very active persons who were against Zoos especially one, called [nothing blue it's Marty flower step](21:49), who said he was a sexual scientists. But I know that he was electrician. But he was very good in scanning very long and very complicated articles of which he liked the headline and posted them to proove that zoos are subhuman and degenerated and against God and so on. But if you I think no one read these long texts, but if you read it, then you could prove to him that the rest of the text had not much to do with the headline... Well seems very familiar even on Twitter ! There were some others and there were also a group of zoos, and these flame wars and arguments and discussions in the best way most time it was frame was went on for six years, and I think it was very very good for us, because we were nearly always more or less polite and mindful when others began to be become very emotional and insulting and so on, and of course it was not only these perhaps 40-50% who were discussing there over the time, but there were thousands of others who were reading it and it did not discuss and I think this hate was also beginning in Germany to get the topic of zoophilia more to the mainstream and you can... now it's it's nearly twenty years ago, but you can, you could watch development that this topic, the topic of zoophilia, and the relationship between humans and animals which is very diverse of course: we you can kill them but you may not have sex with them, and if you love them too much, and suffer when it's dying that's it but it was only an animal and so on... (24:24) There was some diverging currents in the zoo society: one wants to put, to draw any meds closer to humans, because they have the same feelings and they are more or less very similar Yeah there is other animal living beings that experience things very similarly to it that we do although we, the [Human _____ leaden I deny that] (24:50) Yes, and others zoo also feel this but if they consent to this: that animals and humans are very close, they had to change the lifestyle and the society yes then you could not make factory farming and killing animals for food and testing in laboratories and all these things which are bad for animals. - You can't justify them - Yeah you cannot, in yes indeed of course you can close your eyes and says "well I love my dog but I don't care about what's about other animals", but it's not very consequently. (25:35) Of course, people like to stay in the in their region, where they feel good and if they change themselves, or think in new ways, then these security is gone and to avoid... - Yes, we can see that very much in the kind of interactions we have with antis every day. Let me ask you Kommet; were you around for the Usenet or newsgroups ? - No I joined to zeta in 2012, so I came to realize that I'm a zoo around that time as well - That lives lead us then to the next big huge question on the mind, so, tell us about the origins of the Zeta society or the zeta "verein" ? How do you say ? - Verein, yes - Tell us a little bit about how that began - A lot of people, a lot of person, zoos persons, ever and against, said well we should make an organization, someone should do it - "Someone..." - Yes, of course. In the end, of course, nothing happened and even the people who tried fails, because an old man is talking about the youth of today, a lot of people today, I think, they haven't learned to force themselves to something they want to do. So nothing happened. On one of these zeta-prides, there was really a reason to make an organization, because the Green Party, in Germany, had worked a draft of a new animal protection law in which one of the point was that sexual contacts with animals and humans should be banned and penalized [loading](27:35) with the fine. There was really a need to work against this. The background is that the Germany had to follow this what European Union makes as a law, [it's such called a law, a guiding line](27:57) : animals in laboratories had to get a better life as far as possible, and Germany did not react and did not change the law. And it came so far that Germany was short before coming before court of the European Union and they had to do something. And so the Green Party made this proposition. We said we'll have to make an organization. If you say I'm [its mullah Joe average _____ ] (28:32) and I say your law is not good for me and it was not [thought](28:28) to the end and it's not protecting animals rights, then they say "thank you for your input". If you have an organization (you have a bit of lobbying power), you have the chance to be heard. (28:51) We said together in a around and made the outlines of what we want and the outlines of a constitution of this verein. I said I would organize this, because I know I can organize it, I can organize, and so I did (well done!), thanks, in a very sharp way so I said we are now making this in debt and I posted this over the forums which were there at this time. We are now making this end in debt and you can say what you went until to next week at 7 o'clock. And then there was a next step: there were a lot of people who were very eager and you need 7 persons to found a verein (interesting) and when we in the end met, which was in Berlin, to fond the zeta verein. There were some who didn't there and we had one too less: we only had six who would but then we got the signature of one who really wasn't there: someone went to him and take took his signature, and then we had seven. - Ho, thank God ! - In the next two years, we nearly didn't anything, because if you first wanted to be registered. You have to go to a court and your verein has to be registered and then you are a legal entity. - So it takes all a while for the courts to actually register it ? - No, it took a while, it took a short while to let them say : "no you are torturing animals and we will not register you", and then we made a lawsuit against this, which went up to the highest court in Berlin, and came down again and as I said "no you are torturing animals" then we said no it's not this way, try it again with a changed Constitution which was denied also, then we went up to this to the highest court at Berlin, and back again then we had one who knew just a lot about legal things, but unfortunately he was also people are, so someone who is very enthusiastic for a while and [send flips down to be very depressed.] (31:35) - He seems bipolar - Bipolar, ok bipolar - Well and short before the next round through these instances, through the different levels of [of the courts, was ready, he just disappeared and was depressive] (31:51) - Well so this was not a very easy journey, this was wrought with obstacles - No, it wasn't... we tried because this court, who register verein, are regional and then we tried with another verein, at my place, which was called [.Zeta but see I was a](32:20) I slightly changed Constitution, but obviously these courts had talked to each other, and it was actually not the only argument that was left of all these things : they had said we do like torture on animals and fucking animals to death and all these things... - Oh my god... - Was that we don't follow the good [manners](32:44) which is a reason not to register a verein. But, yes, it's the law, but unfortunately, it's [true](32:54) and so we stopped to try to get a register. And in the end, we got the highest court in Berlin, called ["camagreed"](33:11) made a press release that we these Verein of zoophiles were not allowed to be registered. Then the media [exploded/exposed]. I don't why, but and it exploded to worldwide until to Vietnam ! 'Cause they couldn't read it but - I bet it's the sentiment travels people understand what it's about yes well and then, we had a lot of people who are interested in us and a lot of people who who wanted to [tar and feather us](33:50) Well all the [ologies](33:53) possible, but we had the media, in 2012, at the beginning, so more or less, then the new law was as a proposition from the cdu/csu which is Conservative Party and the FTP, which is liberal for [the ___ ones](34:20). [This party and... they made a proposition, and the proposition was the Green Party was still I was also still pending](34:31) And then we got active. - You couldn't wait any more to be registered so you just had to do what you gotta do. (34:39) - Yes, and we wrote to every deputy of the Bundestag, with a little brochure about us, and we wrote to the members of the Bundestag, which is the second chamber, after all this [wouldn't helped](34:58) because we had to [head our block](35:00), which was read very much at this time and, of course, there we said our opinion and in the end, the Bundestag president, so the highest person in the state, had to sign this law to make it come in force and we'd wrote to him, but in the end, the law took force. - So, let's just kind of recap very briefly here: you've created a society, you get rejection a lot for years. A law has passed, that seems, at the time, and it's touted by anti-zoo activists as an anti-zoo law (35:41) - This is a little discouraging to have to work through all that, be rejected in every direction, and yet still you guys kept pushing through. So, I'll say I was kind of give a spoiler for the people keeping score at home, eventually, it was decided that this new law did not apply to zoofiles, and will probably be getting to that here soon. At this time, this is about 2012... - It was ready too the Bundestag, in December I think, 2012 on february, 2nd of february, in which we defined afterwards as zoophile's rights day, it passed the Bundestag, and i think 22 july 12 in 2013, it wents in, it came to force. [TODO : To continue here ...] - Okay and then you guys had about a year to do something about it is that right you can challenge the law if you think its disturbs your civil rights the rights you guys challenge that law in what way we searched for a lawyer who had already made this kind of challenges night with entry found one and then we had to find two people so who think they are disturbed in their rights so these two persons although they weren't any more members of theta said they take the risk and be our persons the persons of the people who making this complaint we aceite could not make this complaint because we are still not registered and we are not a legal entity so it must be a natural person or to natural persons who's complaining well it costs a lot of money a lot of time and some work but we had scientists who supporting us with with texts they wrote from their science sort of you in the in science and so you had this kind of like coalition of like ignant hey assholes we're affected by this negatively yeah and and here's all the experts need to know that this is bullshit yes and what is not very much known we also had a letter of Peter Oh which in which there was said that zu who was who had to go to to the courts because antes thought he would have raped his dog and took the dog away and the dog disappeared then he was there with his other dog and one significant member of Peter wrote a letter to this court that he did not think that this person is doing bad for dogs so this this also went to the bonus for fastened skillet well in the year later more or less there was a decision about 95% of the complaints the professor's clicked did not take it to a decision but they wrote a reason why they did it and in this reason it was said because of well in the Lord said that you are not allowed to demand of animals things they cannot maybe just to cite the law the law is it is forbidden to use an animal wants sex for one's own sexual acts or to train or make available an animal for sexual acts of third parties they are by forcing it to behave in an abusive manner so the the the last part of this law is what's critical because you have to decide whether the law asserts that you you force it to behave in that way or whether whether you have to find that someone causes the animal in order to the law to apply yeah and in another part of this law it is said that you are not allowed to demand a from an animal something the animal not to and the the Mustafa single it said well it means that you allowed allowed to the amount of animals things they can do do do you use force physical force then of course it's not allowed to have sexual contacts with an animal but what is this with psychological psychological psychological force and their the the this decision said that it's must of such a strength or that it resembles to physical force because of zoophiles no one wants to force an animals to have sex with them you say no if they don't want then there's not there's none then because of this zoo files are not afflicted by this law and now we're it's where this is clear it is off cam this is has come to the yeah zoos before the victory means that you were safe basically from the law as long as you're not abusing animals yes yeah now comment I think at one point you had kind of described how your stretch your strategic thinking for having challenged this law you want to kind of kind of describe how you were thinking about challenging the law yes so the the problem with the law was that it was was sad to be a anti zoophilia law so I clearly clearly from the debates that were in the media the law was meant to be against Sioux Falls but from what was written in the law it was clearly not against us at all but it was against so-called animal products which was a rumor that was spread at that time yeah let's just be clear about that real quick because we've watched a lot of things and kind of doesn't send some digging on that animal brothels there's no evidence that they've ever existed and the ones that were alleged to exist turned out to be hoaxes that is correct for Europe that's correct there's a single animal protocol in Indonesia it's thing I think where they abuse foreign Newtons something like that so that's that's one that's been verified yeah that's verified and otherwise there's that does not exist a single other one and if there was any in Germany we would fight to get it closed and free the animals but the the these rumors were used to tell the story about Siviglia to resume towards Denmark and all the stupid stuff which there wasn't any as well and the antes knew about that and they still kept talking about that they kept talking about five hundred thousand animals killed every year by zoo farts and yeah and we actually calculated try to calculate the number what that would mean how many who fights they had to exist for that to actually be possible and how long it would take before exhale extinction of all animals in Europe if that number was true yeah it was about two or five years so these are outlandish claims yeah yeah but the claims were made by animal protection organizations right so not just random people it was made by those organizations so the the public debate made it clear that the law was again was meant against zoo fans the actual law seemed to be meant against those imagined animal brochures so just to get until to get clarification about that we went to the the constant constitutional court and had to winning scenarios winning scenario one would be to have this law taken back or a clarification that the law is not about zoophilia the second winning scenario became reality so we celebrated that in the same way the ante is celebrated the law when it when it passed the Parliament there was so it's just just a tiny little bit but they used a cert in their article they use a certain picture of of champagne and we search that picture it was one photo photo stock or something and we use the exact same picture that's cheeky so you guys okay so comment you or in an interview before and then after this law happened with a certain female reporter who remarked on your luscious eyelashes original tell me about that first interview because you know reading the interview she does seem kind of like oh god this is weird and gross at least at first well I I don't think that from my perspective it was she wrote a letter to Zeta and two of us said okay we would do such an interview and then we had a lot of lots of interview via via Skype and I recorded the interview so they are they sum up to maybe ten or fifteen hours of interview oh my gosh well and that was just for the preparation so I thought yeah after that she went to the place of the Yahoo and I went with her to and there he had actually interview which took about three or four hours again yeah so I know so like what I what I noted was a sense of sort of apprehension and I feel like maybe it was like obligatory apprehension like you know I have to show some sort of sign that you know I don't readily and like yeah like I'm not readily actively like pro this issue I have to show some distance and kind of show apprehension to it yeah that's a common technique I think they they try to mirror works society things or what the reader may think and then take them on on the journey of new information based on on having the same position at the beginning so what what you can see in the first articulately it was trying to paint an image of a secret zoophile society where it was hard to get into or to find something when in reality she wrote a letter and he said yes yeah they like to represent zoos as a secret society that that term come here is not a my friends I found that this picture changed dramatically over the last six years so there's a newer video by a German form art called Y collector and so he started his this video first with a kind of trigger warning which seems to be usual nowadays and then he said well it was easy to find a zoophile I just wrote a letter and we went so so just by having a lot of interviews over the time which is I guess over a dozen by now the perception of sulphides changed in this first impression they they give and I also think that it changes further because the more interviews we give or the more articles we have the the next journalist who wants to make a new article will read those articles and then we'll invite Oh to find thumb say something new to tell about so just happy they get they get a bigger picture with more perspective and like a more accurate reflection of who you are yeah and also for that I think it's possible to it's important to have as many different people to tell about the talk about themselves yes I agree because you run into the risk of becoming a cliche when being the one representives zoophile in the world and right every other zoo seems to be the same way I think it's important to have as many different salutely yes different perspective now speaking of that the two of you are both out as zoo files in your lives Nisan yes correct yes that's correct yes partially click now for I'll get to that so Michael you are you free for you it's completely correct yes yes all right so how did it come about that you what was your experience coming out as a zoo and what is your experience as a zoo who is out over the past six years no it's more like oh no I'm talking about like you know Suze Hughes kinda was saying that your perception has changed over the past six years oh so how is your experience as being in out zoo changed over the past six years well in the beginning I was very cautious then I don't really know know how it came but I was more or less open since II the discussions in the you toxics I was with my real name there nothing happened and then I had a website since 1999 15 lakh well you know you in Germany you must have impression impression where you write your your contacts contact a really you're like required to by law and oh that's insane the US were very very protective of diet as well as a good citizen citizen and working for the state of call of course I wrote it there and nothing happened and some friends of mine knew it and in the I am I was singing in a choir I move a move now away and kind of kind of get that anymore but every year we go on a weekend with a choir and on one of this weekend I made a reading out of my translation of the horsemen and and well they were somewhere looking strange but nothing happened I'm still in this choir and if they like me and there is something to be said about being a human being being out of the zoo yes I think the closer the people are the the less important or dangerous dangerous it is to to come out because they know you and that you are a zoo is just another information about you which have perhaps perhaps guessed somehow and that's that's this way that's me ye so loving with the stork and so on and but it is not as just another information and it doesn't matter very much the the the power of the people are the more they get excited and hostile and my mother perhaps you see she she thoughts about it something somehow but she never said something and she is never reading the build site on which is notorious German like a tabloid yeah not a tablet but that's the sudden in England in the 50s there was even a decision of a court that build site on has not it was not allowed anymore to call it its site on which is newspaper because for a newspaper you know you have to have at least at least a very small part of fair effect their journalists responsibility well but they called me and said they wanted to write something about me whether I would give some an interview and I talked and then they said well if you don't give us an interview you are writing what take anything they are watching something anyway and so I I got them here and they came very full of suspicion and went light-hearted and enthusiastic enthusiastic Wow so so Cassie my dog heads convinced them some weeks later the first set said it would only be in the Berlin part of this build site on but of course it was in the national national part of the boots item I lost I left my wife for a dog which was not really true now the rest the rest of the article was what was it bad only the headline was bullshit like my mother never reads built Zeitung although she is if she's not in in holidays of course she was in holidays and then I got the phone call and talk about 3/4 of an hour but in the end it was well we were still friends that's gone after some somewhere afterwards the things got worse when Facebook and other social networks came to came on the scene a piece near I don't know this a piece was not a thing in Germany it was it was a big for Denmark's anti zoo balls it was one of the anonymous operations operation beasts and they were the ones that were posting all those things online with like pictures of animals being abused in non-sexual way yeah next to stop the anti zoo propaganda yeah so that was a beast and so they really push for Denmark's laws and got that passed and I think they I got the impression they were really working on all of Europe so you did not have a lot of it were other groups interests and and it was as in a predecessor of Facebook which was caught via country who knows who where another zoo who was also in animal welfare that's given us his homepage the SATA homepage which was not the best idea no and then there was an uproar and this Aussie was the guy whom the dog was taken away right here some people had announced they're coming to beat us up right so we set here with three bottles of pepper spray and me and him and a very good female friend of mine which and we were sitting here and no one came of course that income well I know there was this one point where you had people outside of your house yes this was indeed they made in the immediate administration let's say yeah you said in the in the translation they called a silent vigil which is a very experienced thing when we think of silent vigil in the u.s. we think of like a like a funeral sort of thing with candles mm-hmm was like yes but they had not candles was over the day and they stood there and gave leaflets with propaganda to the people and talk to people and so on and then and then they wanted to come to me and they came to me well and there were 30 persons standing out of in front of my garden door and weren't calling with a megaphone some paroles like how I ignore which was the mist ministry at this time protect the animals and so on and I said I'm leaving in the middle of nowhere yeah and I said well yes she will hear you and an hour after an hour and after of course giving lots of propaganda to my neighbors they disappeared again and next day I was at the police complaining because they have to you have to announce to the police it's you're making a demonstration right and from when we saw the times and the place and what the police did not verify was that the way to my work to where I live is also private property and they were on private property Wow in the end I got a phone call of the county police in chief who was saying well sorry for that we did not verify all of what I did that so on well yes then the second time they came but then the state they state well they should these should should stay did not come to private property and I wasn't alone at this time we made a barbecue here with some friends and when the barbecue was over it began to rain and the antis disappeared how about that one thing we run free once did this bipolar guy had a web space and he was of the opinion that everybody must know everything no secrets and everything very good well and we stopped there an invitation for a Zita gathering somewhere in the middle of nova via the rhine and of course we knew that the antes would find it and indeed they came there was a lot of people and were very unfriendly to some people on a camping place but we weren't here the ant is also spilled propaganda and outed me on my working place my mike university picked me up that's kind and they said well he's doing his work he is not harassing others with zoophilia what she doesn't is in its private life is not all it's not all affair and well I I'm still there and if I'm if I'm lucky or we go to retirement in two years oh really Congrats that's fantastic that yes yes you know and you know a lot of times the these auntie's want to convince us that no one else will ever stand up for us and we find that in the real world that is often not true and yet it's good to keep in mind that that that real people are often a lot more decent than we often assure ourselves that they are you know right I think we have more more fears than it's needed yes well they want us to be that way it said of course so come on you said earlier that you're not you're you're out but not it's not entirely the case what did you mean by that so I'm not out in public when I give interviews I tell the donors that I can have that they can have my voice they can have my thoughts my opinions but they cannot have my name or my opinion okay yeah that's that's a very strict rule because once they have my name because I have a distinctive name that only exists once on this planet that could be right so there's there's power in a name yeah and that's there are some people who who like to once they have a name they use it in their articles and claim things about things about anything and if I if I would go to a company and they would google my name they would find would find out easily and that could be a big problem for my line so so I I keep them secret I don't even tell the journalists what my name I came out to my friends in the end of 2012 so about 12 friends at the same time Wow hmm they were all fine I imagine you like it is a small dinner and you stand up with a little champagne glass and tap on it with the fork excuse me friends I haven't announced a it was it was more like after the I became very depressed and my friends noticed that and they said a comment what's going on I told them that that's that is what just happened at that and that depresses me and they said what we know you you're fine with it a little bit of encouragement friends that's what's up mm-hmm actually that was a big release for me teacher because after that we could talk about the topic free there was one significant situation after we came back from a tournament of our sport we sat together at the pizza and one of the one of my my friends put his hand on mine telling me something about a green field where we were lying and then there was the moon and something he was talking about something romantic and then he said something about a unicorn and I interrupted him and said oh are you talking about the unicorn I left you for everyone on the table understood everyone was laughing with me and that was such a great situation such ratings which we have yeah so that helped me it helped me along sure I love that I love that there's really like there's no there's no substitute for supportive friends really and you know I feel bad I see a lot of people are like you just can't trust anyone with this and I feel like it's human nature to have someone you can trust with these things you know mm-hmm and the relief of having that is it's so important for your mental health I think mm-hmm yes yeah I mean you definitely become sick with having to keep such an important part of yourself a secret because there's there's a difference between secrecy and privacy you know and I think most of us are private people but when you have to keep something a secret like that I mean it eats away because you have to start covering for it you know in a situation where the honest answer is one thing you have to make something else up and people pick up on that and they don't know what's up and a lot of times you know they might think that there's something really untoward and you're in your personal life when it's like no it's it's nothing like that it's it's just something that's been you know demonized in yes you know media in people's minds but and that's why as you're saying comment and it's been my experience and I know toggles experience to the people who already know you and know your character and whether you're a good person or not when you come out to them they don't have a problem with it even if they you know might not want to think too much about it because it you know it might be gross to them or whatever and that's that's fine that's if that's their honest feeling but for you as a person they they understand that you are still the same person that they that they knew before and it's really only the people who have no idea who you are as a person who immediately jumped to demonizing you and calling you an abuser and all these things yes and I and I observed that this is mostly women who are demonizing you interesting I think a lot of women have had experiences with sexualized for and and say yes good no they think that the animals is like them and want to protect them with all the force female member has and so they this week we'll explain perhaps a lot of the the vehemence II know they they force these people are they the energy the the the much energy these these people this women have to fight him right so basically because of their experiences as well it's not really their fault it's definitely a societal thing where we will review sex this is kind of power exchange where you know one person is taking something from another systematically objectified yeah the women are subjected to that and so they they would definitely I can understand why they would perhaps be more more prone to that although I would love to hear a female's perspective on that just kind of to verify that especially from a female zoos perspective I wonder how well that translates for them but you know comment I want to say what what as someone who is out with your friends starting from this very crucial moment where this law has been passed how has your experience as an altitude changed over the past six years not at all to be honest so for for that nothing has changed I think has changed the relationship I'm I'm even out to my family and nothing has changed there I didn't I didn't come out to my in my company so I couldn't find the courage to be honest sometimes is another fucking business you know it's funny our friend doodle we were recording a podcast I think it was last month and doodle was at his workplace when he was he's trying to get his laptop and his boss was like hey what are you doing he's like recording a podcast oh really you're in a podcast what kind of podcast is it tell me about your podcast he was like it is a zoophile podcast and as well as like oh it's really well I guess as long as you're not actually hurting animals I guess I don't care I mean you know it was very very scary for him but he is still employed again he's known he's known his boss there for I don't know like a decade or something like that so his boss knows who he is as a person right and we actually went inside after that and and we all had to talk together and yeah the guy was just you know he's like I you know like I understand it's you know it's it's odd and I don't necessarily want to hear about it but at the same time like it was what he said it's like I I know you know doodle and and I know that he would never hurt anyone and and you know it's it's fine I want to add something about the advantages of being out yes please absolutely for a long time of my life I tried to suppress a zoophilia I even married and had a therapist and all the other things and in the in the end you you end up with having to control yourself you're what you say what you think that your breath does not be fast in in situations and when someone is telling telling a Sofer a joke all this consumes a lot of energy and more energy at least at I that I could produce so I was always something like depressive now this is gone the second advantage is you cannot be blackmailed so it's my number one advantage if someone if someone says oh you're a zoo I would tell someone it says everybody knows yes you know an episode three I believe we talked about blackmail and the most radical thing you can do to to undermined someone who might blackmail you is disclose the information yourself mm-hmm which can be very scary for zhuzh especially in the u.s. I know even especially in places where it's far less tolerant than the US but you know that sort of power taking that power back and giving it to yourself is how shall I say empowering yes yeah and it also it relieves you because when something so central like your sexuality is criminalized it it necessarily casts a pall on it you know and we hear the terms you know like shadowy and deep dark in these things and there's nothing dark about my sexuality there's nothing dark about the sexuality of my friends is you know as far as I've witnessed and being out like that and owning what you are and embracing it is an incredibly powerful way of casting that stigma out of your own heart that because it does get internalized of course however hard you fight it and that is very much fed by having to be secretive about it because you know that's the the expression you know of that of that paradigm you know as being secretive you have to keep it secret well if you don't then what happens well you realize that it's just fine you know I think the other the thing about coming out is that when you are out you become a person in the eyes of everyone around you who also is a zoophile so you make zoophile human and you think one of the problems that we have is that when laws are being passed and things like that Zoo files are and a caricature of what we are someone else defines what we are when we are not there just to define ourselves yes right yes so I wonder having had this conversation with you guys what can we in the u.s. learned from the struggles you had in Germany with your legal system so just I don't know how familiar are in the u.s. the legal battles with best eality start at about 98 99 with a sayers who Randy Pepe etc etc yeah so we have a legacy the other difference between us and say Germany is that our laws are passed state by state by state by state so you don't have an you don't have a federal law even being considered until maybe last year and so you don't have you have this kind of like oh well it may be illegal in Oregon but it's not illegal in Texas oh but now it's legal in Texas but you know it's not illegal in Vermont and so you kind of have this more gradual like taking over of the legal system so to speak and so we have 20 years of laws being passed against us without anyone representing us yes and I wonder what we can take from your position where you start from being legal with perhaps misperceptions and then becoming illegal and then getting the clarification that you're not one advice would you give to activists in the u.s. now trying to fight twenty years of not having any representation under the law make an organization all right start an organization reachable by journalism and scientists that's the most important thing because everything you do and say is read by journalists and scientists actually we have when we have the debate in 2020 about about this new law mm-hmm there was an anthropologist who was reading about everything that we wrote and everything that the and his bro and he actually wrote a paper about the whole process and he called it something like at last zoophilia and the normative retroflex e or something like that he wrote it in Germany and German and so in his article he he refers to articles of Zetas he even refers to articles on FINA talk which was Michael something so the next scientist that will read his paper will also be referred to our website and our animals and this is how you become actual part of the science and can have an impact on the sign also with with journalists I'd say for the first interviews I wouldn't cooperate with yellow press right absolutely no no no because they will bring your loaded questions and find ways to turn what you say against you well so once you're visible as an organization there will be journalists that let's say oh I want to do a report about you I want to talk with you about its aphelion and it would be good to have people who are fit talking with journalists they know how what quotes are used and which ones are are for example I found when you use complex sentences most of the times they don't use them at all right so that so they want these quick short sentences that everyone can understand so what you may work may try to work out some sentences you want to say you interview to make sure that they can be part of the article or the video that is Frank yeah and then don't fear to repeat yourself yes we we have a we have had a few interviews recently that all went the this in the same scheme sort of so now the most would visit us we would walk through a forest they would film us and and our animal partner and then you would he would go on with it an anti zoo or a or Peter or whoever or maybe a psychologist talk to them and cut everything together just recently we got a request from journalists mm-hmm who has seen all these videos and he said where they are all the same scheme I don't want to make it the same way I want to make different maybe we can have a zoo and an auntie in the same room discussing with each other yeah yeah it's scary but also fun and I consider that this next step I think when you see us next to each other you realize who's the more reasonable of the two mm-hm exactly and also right now this journalist held a big trouble finding an auntie to talk with interesting because they don't want it they don't want to talk with us they want to propagate their position they don't want to argue right well then you get some advantage as well if you if you feel fear then you feel fear it's not much it will go away somewhere and if you get in trouble because of what you do or what you say or that you are out that it's far easier to cope to hanging with this trouble we tend with the fear of this trouble right right right right right it is easier to deal with the actual trouble than it is to deal with being afraid of the trouble yes I wanted to to ask a little bit more we don't have to talk about it now because it seems like we were not focusing on this part of things but when you were talking about the history of Zeta vine yeah that right fine I sound so it sounds so much better when he said so you had been contemplating making an organization well in advance of the law right it's Wendy when the first first draft of a 90 sulla appeared on the scene yes so it was basic so the the possibility of a law being passed was the factor that even got you thinking about making an organization no it was that was is that the factorized effect of making in an organization there were many thoughts about an organization but it never came to reality it was that factor that that turned it was yes yeah yeah yeah catalyst is Lord that I need that made it suddenly necessary to actually do it rather than to just think about it but you had been talking about Zeta Pride conventions and I had wanted to know what the the social situation frizzies in Germany is and was and it sounds like it was a pretty close-knit before there was a need for an organization to to fight in the courts I close it but what is it well it's close knit me close knit means you had a very close relationship with one another okay at least in my case it is not this way I don't have so many contacts I know that there were people and I know that if something happens I can contact them and we will be the same friends like we were 20 years ago but I have not so many many contacts also not in in in normal life because people in control those is okay but not too much so I can't say very much about it but I think before the auntie's came into place there was there were forward there also were people who had a lot of contact with each other and perhaps met themselves and afterwards then there was a lot of fear there was a lot of fear between the Xu's and everybody disappeared in the dark not everybody but a lot of them disappeared in the dark I think I'm not sure about it but I think that there are a lot of little circles of friends but you don't hear anything about some perhaps commit us no more no it's the same thing for me I'm actually not active in any discussion board anymore also because the the debates are most of the time just the same and by once you're through them it becomes kind of boring oh yeah so so I have if it's just like Micah said I have a few friends new friends that I have regular contact and I rarely add or get a new one so far friend nowadays oh no it's kind of quieted down the new contact wishes it's a bit sad but I guess if I start to be active in the zoo zoo five board discussion boards that would become new one very soon but I just I'm just not that active there are many boats left yeah yeah we have one or two John what's today's it's it a telephone info and part of zoo ball is in German but has a German part so I wonder let me ask you a question this is maybe or maybe not off the record that we're still recording when he had someone on Twitter obviously Twitter is is not really representative of like the struggle but we had someone on Twitter that was very critical of people on Twitter suggesting that you know no one was interested in any sort of advancement of zoo rights based on what they had seen now obviously they had not talked to me very much they had not talked to anyone associated with our pod has nobody talked they talk but none of us who are actually doing this kind of thing and critiqued both the Twitter platform and the podcast is being somehow not valid or legitimate activism what are your thoughts on that activism is when you open your mouth well said my friend I think there are many people who prefer some kind of ostrich they in Germany some zoos think that we are the reason for them the new law that came in 2012 we get that a lot yeah and oh yeah yeah and that they claim that if we had just stayed silent so nobody would have recognized us we wouldn't have that law today no I think otherwise there are activists who push toward those topics and if you stay silent you will be discriminated over time yep they because because they can tell the stories about you that may be true or not true but they have the control over the stories no they can do it they can do you unless you and the only way to counter that is to tell your own stories let's think about this actually you know in in our situation in the u.s. these laws are passed without fanfare no one is fighting against them and when we think of the stories that may lead to them like unum claw what really comes into place is that let's say you know pinion dying via horse the story that is told is not the story of what happened and so we some people will point it and say look if he had just you know been quiet or whatever if that hadn't happened if no one had seen it then that law wouldn't be passed but in reality what it is is that something happens and no one is there to actually tell the right story yes you know the story is cared for us by people who do not have our interests in mind yes and it's silly to say like that people who are mutilating animals sexually or not torturing animals they get suppressed this is an in sensation but hundred people who are living in in in in loving harmony with their partners and perhaps have sex with them no one talks about them if they don't talk about themselves right great you know it's also like I'm thinking there's this popular on Twitter article that's thrown around it's this autopsy report of an animal that's been sexually abused and they use that as you know they send it to us saying look see this is how you know there's a scientific article that's anti zoo and I'm like yes but the problem here is that the representative population is add an animal and that's not representative do relationships with animals and look for the origins of these pictures yeah here they also ventilate a lot of pictures of mutilated animals but usually mutilated just regularly sexual interaction ocularly but if you follow them if you follow them pick and in search where these pictures appeared the first time then it comes that it was in in Turkey or somewhere at the other side of the words and not in Germany some sometimes they would even just use random pictures that look like something else yes example there's a that's a picture of a female dog who had an operation I don't know what operation but her back was covered in Inyo Dean yeah it looks like blood and I said oh the stock was right to death okay it was a male I'm a job yes okay but the point is that they they light up stories they make up stories about pictures they just find at some place some random place on the Internet right it's interesting to me it's always been interesting to you that they they feel that they have to lie it's just it's just that propaganda technique they they know which stories work with people and so they try to tell those stories right that's that's that's how their political strategy works and the only way it took the only way to counter that is first research the true story behind a picture second popplers the true story again on your on your website so people can research the true story and thereby get a chance to see how these people are lying and see the the funny thing to me is that when they try to present these absurd cases as being somehow representative of zoo files if what they were saying was true we would all be immediately jailed because all of our animals would be completely fucked up and every time we took them to the vet they would see all these horrible signs of abuse and you know strange behavior which of course they don't because they're not yes right you know but it never seems to occur to them that sorry half a million five hundred thousand is the judicious estimate so I want to say like we would you know obviously we did a little bit of research we looked up the zeta Society for for you know what you stand for your Constitution and I want to say I think a lot of what you stand for aligns very much with our vision of our podcast so I will I would be so bold as the hope that we can work together in the future as well I would love that it's yes I think we have lots of stuff to talk about we still want to talk about but I think we've got a pretty good basis for for today a good understanding of you know the past of the zeta Society and the situation in Germany so I want to thank you so so much for coming and joining us today it has been an absolute pleasure it's been a privilege to talk with you too thank you for coming and hanging out with us we'll be right back with more zoo in the nail right after this you've been there for me my whole life you taught me everything I'm at a time my shoes to how to be a decent person you tell me you love me every day and I love you too we have no secrets between us except that I am a zoophile and I am afraid to tell you when you ask when am I gonna have grandkids how could I ever explain that my first love was our family dog you tell me you love me unconditionally but other parents have disowned their daughters for less so I'm a zoophile you note but you've known me all my life I'm still the same girl you raised ultimately you decide how our relationship continues from here you could abandon me and disgust and claim you have no daughter or you could be the rock that you've always been and try to understand and tell me you still love me I think you always have what will you do hello ladies and gents and all else in between your favorite Dame of a Dane is very very excited to be back here at ztt soon just enjoying the tail end of a little trip pardon the pun you see I've never been a fan of cold weather and while there's no shortage of devilish dogs and donkeys deigning to dote on the Dane in a dirty deco lessened demeanor I can't help a liveable iteration i benched watched the last season of Bojack horseman on the flight you see but your lovely host has decided to take her amorous adventures to the Pacific Hawaii to be specific I'll just get right to it this trip took me to the city of Kahului on the island of Maui this Dane does prefer to avoid colonialist resorts and obvious tourist traps she's much better than that but I'd much rather spend my time out in the nearby West Maui Forest Reserve flaunting my flair to the forests fauna which is exactly what I did it didn't take too long before I met up with a stud of a boar and not to mince words but you could Bowl with his balls I caught his eye and worked the charm that I'm certain you're all already familiar with it didn't take long for the gruff handsome beast to find his way on top of me and right out in the middle of the forest like an untamed a wild animal he took me it didn't take long for that corkscrew cock to climb down into me doggy style in the mud and I do enjoy a nice mud bath so this wasn't out of my wheelhouse and when he came he came buckets and bathtubs unloading for a good 30 minutes the stain was swelling aching in all the best ways then my enthusiasm for his talented tool led my beautiful boar to introduce me afterwards to a friend of his a dexterously dick to dolphin whose prehensile penis provided pleasure excellence I had also read a lot of Shakespeare on the flight pardon my poetics however it's hard to be bored being bored by a bore but dipping my toes in the water to feel something long wet and wriggly twist around in my woof forgive me I'm a bit flustered now but anyway that's where I've been cold weather is fine for cuddling but your lovely host much prefers it hot now if you'll excuse me I'm in a bit of a mood and I need to visit a local starter 2 or a 5 your host is a bit pent up but she is excited to see you all soon stay zuy friends hi there my name is Randy the RAM I reached out to the producers of this podcast here and they're letting me do so ok personal ads in the newspapers are so old-fashioned and they didn't know enough about Craigslist to put in the thing is my hooves make it really hard to swipe right on tinder so this is my attempt at dating personal ad but um they wrote it for a grinder or a howler account are you sure you're ok with this group and how would you like to be rammed by a real Ram no need to be sheepish my name is Randy and I'm here to fuck looking for bottoms only this ovis only tops but I'm bisexual looking for anybody who wants either hole rammed think you're as horny as a bug or you think you're ready for all five inches then give me a call at five five five one three two four horses may leave you the horse and dogs may leave you panting but this rim will make sure to leave you counting sheep afterwards so sorry it comes across better in text so uh you know give me a call thanks friends for listening to Xue er than thou join us next time for the very last episode of season one in which we'll share outtakes from throughout the season and talk about what comes next from here it promises to be a ton of fun don't miss it you can subscribe to the podcast via our zuy RSS feed just point your favorite podcast client at RSS zoo WTF and off you go you can find us anywhere find podcasts are distributed youtube alexa or the one that works natively on your phone our podcast website is still zu WTF it always has been and lo it always shall be now and forever our Twitter is at Xue er then bow and you can follow Zooey's naughty advice at ask zoo follow me love cat at a cat who loves you and toggle at one big grumpy rekt a reminder that we have a forum that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast on our website zoo WTF you can tell us your favorite episode of season one ask Tsui the best way to navigate the flora and fauna in sunny Hawaii or send a spam mail in Korean you can also simply email us at mail at Zoo WTF have to say it oh you remember the email from earlier we are now obligated to continue this joke into perpetuity which mail is it mail as in why do so many mail send us mail somehow that doesn't clear anything else speaking of mail please print out this episode and mail it to all your friends or if you're in a Valentine's Day mood share an earbud with your crush spread the zuy love everywhere you can all nonhumans who contributed to this podcast are members of the Zeta beam and all have a really nice Zeta varsity jackets did you know that dogs can do meth now if they could just tell us how many licks it takes to get to the creamy center of a zoo a cream pup the world may never know a reminder to donate to our help save my dot dog campaign we still got a long way to go even if you've contributed before please consider contributing again help jason's dog lucy walk again we can do it I have recently witnessed the generosity of zoos who have helped me out when a stray was abandoned on my property we have an opportunity to better the life of an animal fellow zoos this is in our bones let's put it to work I'm love cat and I'm chock full of great aphorisms and I on toggle your favorite rodent and you've almost finished listening to zoo ear than thou stay to fly a pillow zoos we'll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon dammit hey you can't go in
